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Post by robertarthur on Dec 5, 2021 10:06:31 GMT 1
@ Hal, j'ai pris note of your sudden interest, so let me continue. To begin with (surprise?) a oneliner: the value of your earth resistance has nothing to do with possible wiring isolation problems, nothing at all. A second oneliner: not knowing exactly how you have wired the house and the gîtes, I have lined up the five usual suspects, to be interrogated by a megger, and added a hypothesis.A third one: sometimes a defective RCD/ID is responsible for nuisance triggering of the disjoncteur de branchement if something goes wrong in the wiring or equipment downstream. If the problem starts as soon as the heures creuses start, you already have a clue.
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Post by robertarthur on Dec 5, 2021 10:10:08 GMT 1
@ Hal, heading for breakfast now, so I'll have a look at your report back from mission later this morning.
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Post by hal on Dec 5, 2021 10:54:03 GMT 1
Thanks Robert - your drawing is pretty well how it is EXCEPT I have everything behind (or is it in front?) 30mA IDs, this after all those posts on the subject on the first forum, I took your advice and invested in a box of Legrands. So where you show an MCB to the pool, there is an ID between it and the power supply.
In the house, I have separate IDs controlling sockets and lighting, kitchen appliances, Underfloor heating, Hot water and Aircon. But with this mornings revelation, and your last paragraph above, I wonder if the problem is nailed??
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Post by robertarthur on Dec 5, 2021 11:02:55 GMT 1
Hal, back again, and after two cups of coffee and reading about your adventures last night the following remarks: 1/ Wiring to swimming pools, chauffe-eaux, bathrooms, lights outside, always accident prone. 2/ The disjoncteur de branchement (DB) is available in two versions: standard and disjoncteur sélectif S. Why this S -type? It thinks a while before it decides to switch off your power supply: " Disjoncteur de branchement ou disjoncteur de tête, retardé de 40 millisecondes environ, permettant d’assurer la sélectivité avec des dispositifs différentiels haute sensibilité 30 mA placés en aval" (text of Promotelec). This might partially explain the not very perfect cooperation between your RCD of 30 mA and the DB of 500 mA. 3/ Even interrupteurs différentiel of Legrand, Schneider and Hager don't have eternal life. The standard 40 amps species is not always up to continuous, heavy loads, overheating, they don't like it. So there you want to see the 63 A type (floor heating). Or split the load over several IDs. Sometimes their treshold level shifts upwards, to 60 mA or more. Use the test button for a quick test (test current of around 75 mA). 4/ If specialized measurement equipment available it is rather easy to check this out, takes one minute, does the ID in question react in time, and below 30 mA, see picture. The same instrument also tests the earth resistance, local loop test, also one minute affair, after a first check of the line conditions pushing the test button is enough. 5/ The use of more than one ID of 30 mA - a minimum of two - is now in the French electrical code.
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Post by hal on Dec 5, 2021 11:24:27 GMT 1
Yes, of all the IDs I have, there are type A and AC where required, and reading your post here reminds me why my underfloor heating is split across two IDs - I remember at the time you saying this. As for the EDF switch, I do not know if it thinks or not. The way I see it when walking down in the rain to reset it, it does not think very well for me It is an Actaris. It has some writing on it - 500mA, 2 poles 1 pahse protegee, 250V 50Hz then 75 Ir 60-90A and a number SDB ll 500 90A. As for the testing, I will call in someone next week and s/he can look at the earths and all the boards. In the meantime I will leave the hot water off...
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Post by robertarthur on Dec 5, 2021 11:39:31 GMT 1
Hal, gasket of your chauffe-eau leaking a little bit? Visual inspection and maintenance required or new CE. With a simple multimeter it is possible to identify the most obvious problems: switch off the disjoncteur feeding it and from your heating element to earth you should see a reading in the resistance range of above 250 000 Ω. Sometimes these problems show up only after warming up. If this is the case you'll need a megger to identify an isolation problem in cold condition. It measures with a test voltage of 250, 500 or 1000 V. A multimeter produces only tens of millivolts when measuring.
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Post by hal on Dec 5, 2021 11:44:21 GMT 1
Robert, there are times when one just leaves it to the professionals! Finer points of electricity is one of these times for me The water cylinder is all encased in panels, but I have an insurance policy on it together with the aircon, so I will call them out to earn their crust. As I might be selling next year, a full inspection and report on general electrics might be money well spent...
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Post by hal on Dec 19, 2021 11:07:16 GMT 1
Just to close this one down and thanks Robert et al for input - it is all sorted now. Basically the heater element was losing its fight with the water. The engineer though concurs with everyone that I should have my earths checked. Sorted, but not without fun and games. Hot water and aircon are on a service contract. I called the company but the only slot available was after I left for London, but not a problem as the dog-sitter was there to let the technician in. He stayed for five minutes and wrote a somewhat rude report that the chauffage looked perfectly OK and that there was no leak. He departed before I got a photo of the report, so I complained bitterly to the service company o his stupidity. After I arrived, another technician arrived all apologetic, saw the problem immediately and fitted the new element, cleaned up and went home. The service company have given me a free month on my service contract - '..in light of the first technician not appreciating that the water supply to the chauffage was turned off..'
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