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Post by rabbit on Jul 20, 2021 14:13:13 GMT 1
Twice today the the Differentiel Prise Courant tripped out. I reset the differential and all was ok for 8 hours when it tripped for a second time. The delay between trips makes it difficult to isolate by unplugging items. The wiring is about 15 years old and it has never happened before. Standard sort of stuff plugged in Freezer, fridge, livebox TV. I have called an electrician but it is holiday time.
1. Can the Differentiel at the consumer box become over sensitive and need replacing? If so would you recommend starting there. Can it be tested? It does have a test button which I tried and it switches off 2. If the Differentiel is good how do I go about tracing the fault? 3 Can an electrician use some test equipment to check out the problem Thanks in advance for any advice
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Post by Polarengineer on Jul 20, 2021 14:29:13 GMT 1
Switch off all the circuits associated with the diff. Switch on the diff and then one of the associated circuits, if OK try the next circuit and so on until the circuit you switch on blows the diff. That will be where a fault lies. If you know which equipment is on that circuit, remove all and after reset of the diff, try that switch again, if the diff stays in, plug in the equipment one at a time to see what is causing the fault. That will narrow down the possibilities or find a bad connection. Good luck.
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Post by Olave H on Jul 20, 2021 14:31:15 GMT 1
Process of elimination maybe?
Unplug 'em all & plug back in, one at a time, until one trips it.
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Post by rabbit on Jul 20, 2021 14:51:18 GMT 1
Thanks for your advice. The problem is the differential trips today have been 8 hours apart and so I guess it is not a solid fault and so turning appliances off and on is unlikely to show anything between faults
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Post by Polarengineer on Jul 20, 2021 16:01:21 GMT 1
This would indicate a user that only starts intermittently such as, in this hot weather, the hot water heater. If anything, the fridge and freezer will be working more in this heat, so potentially more tripping frequency.In case the fridge motor/compressor is causing the odd overload, make sure the condenser grill at the back is getting plenty of ventilation.
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Post by robertarthur on Jul 20, 2021 17:27:28 GMT 1
@ Rabbit, perhaps not a permanent fault, but a solid fault it is. No fuse blowing or MCB tripping, so it is not an overload condition that triggers the main switch, but a massive leak current to earth. A split second is enough. These main switches ( disjoncteur de branchement - DB) switch off as soon as they notice fault currents to earth of more than 500 mA, an example of the modern generation. These DBs are very reliable, even the oldies (650 mA) sometimes keep on working. An electrician will probably start doing as advised here already: trial and error, a process of elimination. The usual suspects: electric kettles, fridge, freezer, chauffe-eau électrique, garden lights or a leak somewhere in the roof. And even if an electrician has a specialised meter of Chauvin-Arnoux or Fluke in his toolcase to test speed and trip level of a differential device, and the DB is not faulty, then his detective starts following the already outlined steps by others. Additional remark: it is a pity that the information on TotalFrance, FE, PontNoir and TNFF has vanished in thin air.
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Post by rabbit on Jul 21, 2021 8:06:28 GMT 1
Thanks for the advice
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ibis
Banned Member
Posts: 1,376
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Post by ibis on Jul 21, 2021 20:14:48 GMT 1
Funny enough, but we had a rabbit make a home in one of the walls of an outbuilding and every time it entered or left, it hit some very bad wiring and tripped the fuse. I was young then but remember the story and my father searching for the cause.
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Post by Crystal on Jul 21, 2021 21:42:36 GMT 1
When one of our kitchen sockets wouldn't work we blamed the toaster that was plugged into it, so I went out and bought a new one, but it wouldn't work either. When OH unscrewed the socket to inspect the wiring, a fried mouse dropped out! Both toasters worked fine after that!
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Post by robertarthur on Jul 21, 2021 21:50:27 GMT 1
Interesting option, not seen yet in the brico sheds, socket with built-in toaster.
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Post by rabbit on Jul 22, 2021 11:03:44 GMT 1
Update
no trips for 48hours after I moved out the fridge and freezer and disconnected the portable A/C in the cave. Just 15 mins ago I resumed some work in a bathroom where I was using my drill. All fine then after 20 mins the Interrupteur Differentiel tripped out and when I went to reset it it wouldnt come back on. I unplugged my drill and this time the ID reset OK and power back on. Hmmm ? When this problem started 3 days ago I was using the drill then too. I checked its plug and the live was disconnected from the terminal. I guess this could be the cause of my ID tripping out all the prises circuits?
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Post by annabellespapa on Jul 22, 2021 11:08:08 GMT 1
Update no trips for 48hours after I moved out the fridge and freezer and disconnected the portable A/C in the cave. Just 15 mins ago I resumed some work in a bathroom where I was using my drill. All fine then after 20 mins the Interrupteur Differentiel tripped out and when I went to reset it it wouldnt come back on. I unplugged my drill and this time the ID reset OK and power back on. Hmmm ? When this problem started 3 days ago I was using the drill then too. I checked its plug and the live was disconnected from the terminal. I guess this could be the cause of my ID tripping out all the prises circuits? Well done ! An electrician would of struggled to diagnose that unless you were using your drill when he was there
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Post by Olave H on Jul 22, 2021 11:20:37 GMT 1
Interesting option, not seen yet in the brico sheds, socket with built-in toaster. We had a toaster with a built in mouse. One morning I put some bread in the toaster & pushed down the 'start' lever. A few seconds later the electrics tripped, bread shot up & a live mouse shot out & ran off.
It appeared I'd left my jacket hanging too low over a kitchen chair & a cat escapee mouse had climbed it onto the work surface & found the crumbs in the toaster.
Shows how sensitive the security of French electrics is if done correctly.
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Post by robertarthur on Jul 22, 2021 11:34:11 GMT 1
@ OlaveH, so probably an earthed socket and a 30 mA RCD ( interrupteur différentiel) reacting very fast, in milliseconds. Also available outside France....The chances of survival for this mouse if it had to wait before a 16 amp fuse blows are minimal. So an ID not only protects human life, also our animal companions.
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Post by rabbit on Jul 22, 2021 13:17:11 GMT 1
So my ID appears to be working! But I have an ancillary question. I have an electric hedge trimmer and a couple of times I have accidentally cut through its cable. Why does the ID not trip in these circumstances?
I would like to thank again everyone who has offered advice. Particular thanks to Robert who has been very informative and patient.
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