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Post by rabbit on Apr 19, 2022 8:57:43 GMT 1
My car has retractable mirrors that fold in on locking the car with a remote key. They work fine, except on the two times I have been on a car ferry the mirrors don't retract automatically when I lock the car. Once off the ferry they are working again. It is not a major problem of course I am just puzzled why this should happen. Any ideas?
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JohnnyD
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Mayenne (53) When Covid allows..........Which isn't very often these days........
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Post by JohnnyD on Apr 19, 2022 9:32:26 GMT 1
Do you lock the car in a different way on the ferry ie alarm disabled etc?
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Post by rabbit on Apr 19, 2022 9:56:52 GMT 1
Yes I do disable the alarm but that is done after the car is locked and the mirrors should have retracted. In essence there is no difference in procedure just the difference of location.
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Post by landmannnn on Apr 19, 2022 11:42:37 GMT 1
So when you really need them, they don't work.
Sod's law.
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Post by Polarengineer on Apr 19, 2022 16:00:33 GMT 1
I read somewhere that the cicuit contains a motion detector. If the ships engines are running there is always a vibration that may prevent the mirrors retracting.
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JohnnyD
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Mayenne (53) When Covid allows..........Which isn't very often these days........
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Post by JohnnyD on Apr 19, 2022 16:47:12 GMT 1
I read somewhere that the cicuit contains a motion detector. If the ships engines are running there is always a vibration that may prevent the mirrors retracting. This would be my bet also, it must be a vibration thing I think.....
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Post by beejay on Apr 19, 2022 16:55:06 GMT 1
I read somewhere that the cicuit contains a motion detector. If the ships engines are running there is always a vibration that may prevent the mirrors retracting.
AFAIK mirror motors are just that - a 12 volt motor and gears with no electronics. Preventing the mirrors folding in motion is covered by the "ignition" circuit as engine on = mirrors extended. My mirrors extend as soon as the key is turned to on although it can be over-ridden with a switch to allow passing through tight gaps! wonder if that's speed controlled - must check.
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Post by Polarengineer on Apr 19, 2022 17:32:45 GMT 1
I read somewhere that the cicuit contains a motion detector. If the ships engines are running there is always a vibration that may prevent the mirrors retracting.
AFAIK mirror motors are just that - a 12 volt motor and gears with no electronics. Preventing the mirrors folding in motion is covered by the "ignition" circuit as engine on = mirrors extended. My mirrors extend as soon as the key is turned to on although it can be over-ridden with a switch to allow passing through tight gaps! wonder if that's speed controlled - must check. Cheapo car obviously
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Post by lurcher on Apr 19, 2022 17:41:47 GMT 1
That’s very odd. Perhaps the ferry company could throw some light on the reason. You can’t be the only car owner with this problem.
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Post by pcpa on Apr 19, 2022 19:30:56 GMT 1
AFAIK mirror motors are just that - a 12 volt motor and gears with no electronics. Preventing the mirrors folding in motion is covered by the "ignition" circuit as engine on = mirrors extended. Dependant on the age of your vehicle or if it is a cheapo as someone else quipped you may think that the ignition switch switches 12v to the mirror motor but the day you decide to do some faultfinding on such a simple circuit you will find that you have been deluding yourself. Almost everything is controlled via the Canbus network, lights, indicators, door locks, electric windows, windscreen wipers, pretty much everything, its done to save on expensive copper cabling and also so that silly things like engaging reverse gear can make the door mirrors look down and put the heating/aircon/ventilation system into recirc mode so you dont breath exhaust fumes, that is just one example. When you turn the headlight switch on it does not carry the current to the headlights, it does not even energise a relay, it gives a logic signal to the body control module (many different names according to which manufacturer), according to the status of other inputs including the bulb filament monitoring, it will (or may not) send a signal to the canbus gateway which will send a signal to the canbus controllers for the front and rear lights and also those of the instrument console, radio, any others that have backlit illuminated switches and any module that needs to know that the lights have been switched on including the power management module which will switch them off after a period if you lock and leave the vehicle but won't if only parking lights (sidelights) are selected. Even the rear windscreen wiper on my 7 year old vehicle has a canbus controller within which in turn switches other stuff. The OP's vehicle will probably have detected vibration or a pitching motion, yes they also have accelerometers in all 3 axis.
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Post by pcpa on Apr 19, 2022 19:32:41 GMT 1
That’s very odd. Perhaps the ferry company could throw some light on the reason. You can’t be the only car owner with this problem. I bet they live for responding to requests like that, I mean its not as if they have much to do at present.
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Post by rabbit on Apr 20, 2022 9:14:02 GMT 1
I think the vibration theory is the best I have heard. Certainly when I wash the car with a power hose and the car unlocked, the mirrors retract when the hose goes near them. I am familiar with an information bus and not sure of the relevance the message sent via the bus is the same regardless of location. I can only think the bus may be getting interference when on the ferry and the message is being truncated but that seems unlikely
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Post by beejay on Apr 20, 2022 14:00:52 GMT 1
AFAIK mirror motors are just that - a 12 volt motor and gears with no electronics. Preventing the mirrors folding in motion is covered by the "ignition" circuit as engine on = mirrors extended. Dependant on the age of your vehicle or if it is a cheapo as someone else quipped you may think that the ignition switch switches 12v to the mirror motor but the day you decide to do some faultfinding on such a simple circuit you will find that you have been deluding yourself. Almost everything is controlled via the Canbus network, lights, indicators, door locks, electric windows, windscreen wipers, pretty much everything, its done to save on expensive copper cabling and also so that silly things like engaging reverse gear can make the door mirrors look down and put the heating/aircon/ventilation system into recirc mode so you dont breath exhaust fumes, that is just one example. When you turn the headlight switch on it does not carry the current to the headlights, it does not even energise a relay, it gives a logic signal to the body control module (many different names according to which manufacturer), according to the status of other inputs including the bulb filament monitoring, it will (or may not) send a signal to the canbus gateway which will send a signal to the canbus controllers for the front and rear lights and also those of the instrument console, radio, any others that have backlit illuminated switches and any module that needs to know that the lights have been switched on including the power management module which will switch them off after a period if you lock and leave the vehicle but won't if only parking lights (sidelights) are selected. Even the rear windscreen wiper on my 7 year old vehicle has a canbus controller within which in turn switches other stuff. The OP's vehicle will probably have detected vibration or a pitching motion, yes they also have accelerometers in all 3 axis.
I did start with AFAIK so thank you for the lesson in vehicle electronics which has added something to the K part. I just wasn't aware of how many parts are interrelated. However, any chance of me delving into the electronics of a motor car is not going to happen.
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Post by beejay on Apr 20, 2022 14:06:38 GMT 1
AFAIK mirror motors are just that - a 12 volt motor and gears with no electronics. Preventing the mirrors folding in motion is covered by the "ignition" circuit as engine on = mirrors extended. My mirrors extend as soon as the key is turned to on although it can be over-ridden with a switch to allow passing through tight gaps! wonder if that's speed controlled - must check. Cheapo car obviously
That hurt
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Post by ForumUser2 on Apr 20, 2022 15:27:58 GMT 1
Mirrors? In France? Who uses them?
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