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Post by davelister on May 7, 2022 8:56:41 GMT 1
Having had some fun on another forum on the subject of what it means to be British I was wondering what people seriously thought about the union. For my part I look at what's happening in Northern Ireland and in Scotland and seriously worry that the United Kingdom might not be united for much longer. The current government in Westminster seems even more tone deaf to the regions and nations than normal. In my experience there has never been a real understanding amongst the various tribes ( I remember being schooled by a neighbour on the NI situation ). To me, the UK is like a smaller version of the EU except it was founded so long ago that everyone's forgotten the reason for it. I'm not looking at another 'empire bashing' thread. As most of us are the product of a united kingdom I'm hopeful for a grown up discussion on what people think it might look like in 10 years.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2022 9:44:12 GMT 1
The EU evolved from the common market, formed in the common interest of its members. The United Kingdom evolved from England's expansionism through militarism or the threat thereof.
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Post by davelister on May 7, 2022 9:48:39 GMT 1
The EU evolved from the common market, formed in the common interest of its members. The United Kingdom evolved from England's expansionism through militarism or the threat thereof. Regardless I'm interested in looking forward, not back.
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Post by ForumUser2 on May 7, 2022 11:21:26 GMT 1
For my part I look at what's happening in Northern Ireland and in Scotland and seriously worry that the United Kingdom might not be united for much longer. Why should that be a worry? For many it's a desire.
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Post by davelister on May 7, 2022 11:32:23 GMT 1
For my part I look at what's happening in Northern Ireland and in Scotland and seriously worry that the United Kingdom might not be united for much longer. Why should that be a worry? For many it's a desire.
So what do you see as the future of this European archipelago?
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Post by ForumUser2 on May 7, 2022 11:33:58 GMT 1
[ I remember being schooled by a neighbour on the NI situation [/div][/quote] That must have been a looooooong conversation. NI is merely the result of a crumbling British Empire in which divide and rule, as ever, was employed to subjugate the population. As ever, it didn't work and led, in the North of Ireland, to apartheid, persecution of the majority by the minority and the maintenance of a Unionist hegemony by gerrymandering and force. When a government sets its troops on its own people you've got to recognise that there's something substantially rotten at the core. Lastly, don't let anyone be fooled into thinking that NI is a part of the UK in the way that England, Scotland and Wales, are. It it is not politically equal in many ways nit least because of the NI protocol. Can you see Yorkshire, Ceredigion, Grampian, Shropshire etc being sequestered from the UK in the way that NI has? NI is a political aberration and will remain so until the good people of the island decide that 900 years of oppression is quite enough and Ireland is fully capable of looking after itself and ALL its people without the need for jingoistic attachment by some to a polity that sees it only as an encumbrance.
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Post by ForumUser2 on May 7, 2022 11:37:30 GMT 1
[/div] [/quote] Why should that be a worry? For many it's a desire. [/quote][/div]
So what do you see as the future of this European archipelago?
[/quote] I see no reason why a United Ireland, along with Scotland, shouldn't take their place in the EU. What England and Wales do is none of my concern - if the majority of that population want to play out their vision of Global Greatness to a vanishing audience, that's entirely up to them.
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Nifty
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Post by Nifty on May 7, 2022 11:45:49 GMT 1
[/div] [/quote] Why should that be a worry? For many it's a desire. [/quote][/div]
So what do you see as the future of this European archipelago? [/quote] unification with Rockall.
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Post by hal on May 7, 2022 12:52:42 GMT 1
mistake
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Post by pcpa on May 7, 2022 18:09:48 GMT 1
Regardless I'm interested in looking forward, not back. So am I which is why I don't concern myself for a second with what the state of the union might look like in 10 years, nor for that matter what is happening today whether it be politics, the covid situation on the island or whoever's resignation is called for today or tomorrow.
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Post by ForumUser2 on May 7, 2022 20:47:39 GMT 1
Well, Northern Ireland will, for the first time, have a Nationalist/Republican majority at Stormont.
Perhaps only an Irishman can appreciate how seismic that is. I mean, really, this is huge.
900 years and Ireland might be on the verge of getting its country back.
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ibis
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Post by ibis on May 7, 2022 20:51:44 GMT 1
Should we expect a vote or is it to early?
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Post by ForumUser2 on May 7, 2022 21:06:31 GMT 1
Oh, I expect it will be a good while yet. And, under the GFA, reunification can only occur if both the North and South agree independently through a referendum in each part.
Curiously the GFA agrees to the provision of a NI ref only if it is clear that a majority in the North support reunification. Er, surely the point of a referendum is to establish exactly that?!
So it's not just a question of majority agreement in the North but the Republic must agree to accept the North back into a united island. That's not necessarily something that everyone in the South would support but I suspect the majority would.
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exile
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Post by exile on May 7, 2022 21:36:16 GMT 1
Also do not confuse SF having a majority to mean that it has over half of the seats. It is still a long way from that - but it is indeed progress. Also of course just because people chose to vote for parties other than SF does not mean they are against unification.
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ibis
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Post by ibis on May 7, 2022 23:52:45 GMT 1
Oh, I expect it will be a good while yet. And, under the GFA, reunification can only occur if both the North and South agree independently through a referendum in each part. Curiously the GFA agrees to the provision of a NI ref only if it is clear that a majority in the North support reunification. Er, surely the point of a referendum is to establish exactly that?! So it's not just a question of majority agreement in the North but the Republic must agree to accept the North back into a united island. That's not necessarily something that everyone in the South would support but I suspect the majority would. It will probably come down to economics. Is the south richer than the north? Could they(south) pay for or want to pay for all the sponges in the North with the same that they get now from the queen? Hard decision.
A lot needs to be done but within my life I think I will see a reunited Ireland. Good or bad. Who knows..
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