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Post by leclairon on Jul 23, 2021 11:00:57 GMT 1
Married in England, we are, as I understand it, in the regime of Separation de Biens, which seems fine. However, I thought I remembered reading that after so many years as French Residents, it automatically defaults to a French Marriage Regime. I don't know where I read that or whether it is right but since Separation de Biens is a French regime, does anything change?
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Post by elsie on Jul 23, 2021 15:28:04 GMT 1
There is no automatic change on becoming French residents. But you can make the change by going to a notaire. With Separation de Biens each spouse to remains the individual owner of property acquired before and during the marriage. There is no common heritage. The French marriage contract is called régime de communauté universelle with the clause d’attribution intégrale. On the death of the first spouse the surviving spouse automatically becomes sole owner of all of the property, and the rights of the children are deferred. It is the clause ' d’attribution intégrale' which ensures that the surviving spouse succeeds to the totality of the inheritance. Notaires have been reluctant to allow you to adopt the regime communauté universelle if you have children by a previous relationship. There are other inheritance implications. See www.french-property.com/guides/france/finance-taxation/inheritance/marriage/# for a more detailed explanation
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Post by leclairon on Jul 23, 2021 17:16:41 GMT 1
Thanks, Elsie. That's a bit like the en tontine, then, which can knock out any blood children of just the deceased. In our situation, uncomplicated, I think we are fine as we are. I just thought I had read that there was an automatic default to a 'French' regime and wasn't sure what that entailed. Thanks.
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Post by clothmama on Jul 25, 2021 18:38:35 GMT 1
The French marriage contract is called régime de communauté universelle with the clause d’attribution intégrale. On the death of the first spouse the surviving spouse automatically becomes sole owner of all of the property, and the rights of the children are deferred. It is the clause ' d’attribution intégrale' which ensures that the surviving spouse succeeds to the totality of the inheritance. Oh so that means we didn't have to do a Tontine for our house then? ?? I never heard this.
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Post by elsie on Jul 26, 2021 13:46:03 GMT 1
To be clear, if you married in England or Wales your marriage contract is, and remains, Separation de Biens unless you change it. So if you bought a property jointly you each own a part separately and it would be inherited separately. That was the reason en tontine was often recommended in the past, especially before the marriage laws in France were changed significantly under Sarkozy to give the spouse more rights.
The England/Wales marriage contract does not automatically become régime de communauté universelle with the clause d’attribution intégrale when you move to France.
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Post by leclairon on Jan 21, 2023 21:03:10 GMT 1
I have resurrected this because I have just been informed by a Notaire that after 10 years of marriage, the Séparation de Biens, which is what we come under being married in UK, does default to a French Marriage Contract. This can have consequences on a 'famille recomposée'. Has anyone else come across this? I don't know yet what is involved in trying to keep the Séparation of Biens.
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suein56
Member
Southern Morbihan 56 Brittany
Posts: 7,460
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Post by suein56 on Jan 21, 2023 22:01:26 GMT 1
Having looked (quickly) I can't find anything that backs up what this Notaire is saying. Further research is needed ..
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Post by houpla on Jan 21, 2023 22:18:36 GMT 1
But Séparation de Biens is a French marriage contract! One of them. Communauté Universelle being another. AFAIK the French have been able to opt for one or another for decades.
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Post by leclairon on Jan 22, 2023 0:08:41 GMT 1
I am also researching more. We have made another RDV. It seems it may default to a different French marriage regime where the assets after marriage become communal (I don't know which one) and you have to go through the process of changing to the S de Biens, which costs several hundred euros. I think this is may be a consequence of a recent European law. I had read about this a couple of years ago.
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Post by houpla on Jan 22, 2023 7:59:12 GMT 1
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Post by leclairon on Jan 22, 2023 9:54:48 GMT 1
Thank you for those links. I am going to run them off and go through in more detail.
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Post by mangetout on Jan 22, 2023 10:50:32 GMT 1
I sense, but am not sure, that your notaire is confusing the recent legal challenge regarding the use of English law for wills when children are 'disinherited'. Just a thought.
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Post by cernunnos on Jan 22, 2023 18:26:03 GMT 1
No way a contract can "default" to another contract. It can be non-applicable due to change of citizenship , but then you don't have a contract. People get mixed up with residency and Nationality. Go to the Notaire and make a new marriage contract.
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Post by leclairon on Jan 22, 2023 19:55:12 GMT 1
Hi I probably didn't phrase it clearly. Being English, married in England, we don't have a marriage 'contract' like the French but they class 'married under English law' as Séparation de Biens in France. I had thought that 'state' just continued but my original post was because I had read something a while back which said, in the absence of a formal contract, you would be classed as coming under one of the French contracts after so many years' residence which kept anything owned prior to marriage separate but anything amassed during the marriage as communal assets. This affects our particular situation so I queried it with the Notaire and she confirmed it. However, I am still researching it. Yes, she said she could organise a marriage contract and we will discuss that in more detail with her next time.
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Post by cernunnos on Jan 22, 2023 20:15:02 GMT 1
En l'absence de démarche particulière, les époux sont soumis au régime de la communauté légale. Si les époux ou futurs époux veulent opter pour un autre régime matrimonial, ils doivent établir un contrat de mariage. Le recours à un notaire est obligatoire.
Sous le régime de la communauté universelle, tous les biens que possèdent les époux au jour de leur mariage, ceux qu'ils pourront acquérir ensuite ou recueillir par succession et donation, forment une seule et même masse commune. Il est toutefois possible d'exclure certains biens.
So no , not seperation de biens. Not all French folk have a marriage contract .
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