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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2022 13:18:34 GMT 1
The problems of one cash starved public service expected to be carried by another cash starved public service? Tax cuts and social welfare? Good luck with that wish list. People who vote Conservative have no right to moan about failing public services. The NHS in England is being set up to fail.q As a consequence of the Barnet Formula and the devolution settlement the other three could face the same fate.
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spectrum
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Post by spectrum on Aug 11, 2022 13:32:03 GMT 1
I don't know if any of you have worked in the NHS. I did from the 70s to nearly 2000. The change came about when they got rid of ward sisters and matrons, then nurses coming in needed a degree, nurses training collages were sold of, various types of secondary care hospital were closed and again land sold for housing, the new word on the street was "Care in the community" it didn't work. There is too many people coming to the UK for free health care with no checks done on them, I remember a infamous case of a Nigerian woman flying here to give birth to quads (I think) ran up a bill of hundreds of thousands pounds then buggered back to a sunnier climate. Now you have this next lot of parasites invading the UK and what happens? SFA. Still cant grumble too much I enjoy my pension. Just hope I never fall ill if Iam in the UK.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2022 13:52:13 GMT 1
I faced the same prejudices the first time I was in hospital in France.
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Post by hal on Aug 11, 2022 14:56:08 GMT 1
I don't know if any of you have worked in the NHS. I did from the 70s to nearly 2000. The change came about when they got rid of ward sisters and matrons, then nurses coming in needed a degree, nurses training collages were sold of, various types of secondary care hospital were closed and again land sold for housing, the new word on the street was "Care in the community" it didn't work. There is too many people coming to the UK for free health care with no checks done on them, I remember a infamous case of a Nigerian woman flying here to give birth to quads (I think) ran up a bill of hundreds of thousands pounds then buggered back to a sunnier climate. Now you have this next lot of parasites invading the UK and what happens? SFA. Still cant grumble too much I enjoy my pension. Just hope I never fall ill if Iam in the UK. The problem is that no one can see all this and/or no one wants to admit they got it wrong, so yet more admin job-for- lifers are employed to put right. And govt jnust raises mor tax to be earmarked for this admin. Nothing changed. I know someone in Hillingdon hospital. They have a regular ambulance run to Heathrow just to collect the hospital holidaymakers from whom no money is collected. they are owed millions. But who cares?
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exile
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Post by exile on Aug 11, 2022 15:24:43 GMT 1
So just out of interest, how do you know that no money was collected? Was your colleague also working in admin??
I can only speak from personal experience when I was taken ill in the UK and hospitalised. I was not covered by free NHS usage and an administrator was very keen to ensure that she could collect the necessary fees from my health care provider. She did seem a bit out of her depth to start with but with me being able to supply a few contact numbers she got the task done. I am guessing this may have been the first time she had had to do this but do it she was determined to do.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2022 15:56:07 GMT 1
I still value the NHS although I'm no longer a customer. It has served me well and continues to serve my family and friends well. You never miss your water till your well runs dry. In the UK, despite all the past privileges of being a powerful and wealthy state, there are plenty of causes still to fight for. The NHS should be everyone there's priority.
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Post by lindalovely on Aug 11, 2022 16:46:34 GMT 1
I don't know if any of you have worked in the NHS. I did from the 70s to nearly 2000. The change came about when they got rid of ward sisters and matrons, then nurses coming in needed a degree, nurses training collages were sold of, various types of secondary care hospital were closed and again land sold for housing, the new word on the street was "Care in the community" it didn't work. There is too many people coming to the UK for free health care with no checks done on them, I remember a infamous case of a Nigerian woman flying here to give birth to quads (I think) ran up a bill of hundreds of thousands pounds then buggered back to a sunnier climate. Now you have this next lot of parasites invading the UK and what happens? SFA. Still cant grumble too much I enjoy my pension. Just hope I never fall ill if Iam in the UK. i worked in the NHS from 1984 up until 1998 , and then in education linked to the NHS. Ward sisters still existed and were in charge of running the wards. Nursing changed as demands changed. For example, in my first job at UCH I was able to provide Occupational Therapy cover to 600 patients, with just one other FT member of staff. Why? Because older frail people that need maximum input from services either died quite quickly, didn't get as far as hospital, or were able to be discharged to appropriate care in homes or in the community pretty quickly. Roll forward 15 years, the majority of patients on acute surgical, medical and orthopaedic wards were frail, often with multiple pathologies and complex care needs, and services in the community were unable to support them, often meaning long waits for care. Things actually improved a little with Tony Blair's government, but basically the pressures of complex care still existed. People were surviving strokes that would have killed them previously, but needing time in specialist intensive care and rehab before going home, surgical operations became more and more complex, requiring complex aftercare, cancer treatments and treatments for rheumatology for example, require understanding of complex biomedical issues way above that of the basic nurse. So nursing became more technical, requiring a good level of scientific understanding, and the more practical roles were passed to health care assistants, who actually do most of the basic care on wards. Nurses training colleges weren't sold but moved to educational establishments. I actually trained in a School in a big psychiatric hospital in Northampton. It was a dreadful place and the training was really dated, so moving the course to the local college was a good move. You would think living and working and a big city that I would have been familiar with all these cases of health tourism, but in truth I can only remember one very sad case, which wasn't really tourism, but one of desperation. A very confused and elderly Arabian man was found wandering around Saint Pancras Station. He had no Identification on him, spoke no English and very little in any other language, such was the level of dementia. His family were never traced, despite involvement of police and various embassies. He spent his last few years in a nursing home, unable to communicate with anyone, and he died without anyone knowing his real name. Over my time in the NHS I worked at UCH, The Middlesex, The Whittington and Chelsea and Westminster in various settings, in later years mostly with older people and some of it in the community, which actually worked very well if the resources were there.
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Post by ForumUser2 on Aug 11, 2022 18:17:02 GMT 1
The "coming over here and using our health service/taking our housing and jobs/raping our women" polemic serves only as a scapegoat for the consistent and inbred incompetence at ministerial level and above.
While it might make people feel better and not a little self-righteous to blame all ills on Johnny Foreigner, the truth is that the very top level of Health administration - that is, the Ministry and government in general - are simply unable to understand never mind deal with a beast as complex and unwieldy as the NHS.
No amount of scapegoating foreigners, managers or anyone else will serve to exonerate successive governments from institutional incompetence.
At the risk of being stoned as a heretic, is it time to accept that a system similar to that in Germany or France might better serve the needs of the population and should funded by those that use it rather than trying to throw more extravagant taxpayer dosh at the crumbling edifice?
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Post by omegal on Aug 11, 2022 19:22:59 GMT 1
It does seem strange then that French health official often take trips over to the UK to see how things work over there and at the same time UK heath officials come over to France to take a look at how things work here. Grass is greener?
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exile
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Post by exile on Aug 11, 2022 19:28:31 GMT 1
I don't think it is grass is greener, more have we missed a trick.
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Post by hal on Aug 11, 2022 22:10:34 GMT 1
Sky news tonight - July NHS statistics one of worst ever! Actual figures given were laughable. Some chappy defending them said the reason was that the hospitals were full! No shit Sherlock! I would suggest they build some new ones, but the joke that is the new Liverpool one indicates this is not possible
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spectrum
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Post by spectrum on Aug 12, 2022 7:27:11 GMT 1
With respect to lindalovely, your experience of the NHS appears to be based around London, my experience was totally based around the Yorkshire area, so as allways we will have differant views and opinions of how things once worked. The NHS will always be difficult to get right it is a huge complex organisation.
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Post by Seaboots on Aug 12, 2022 7:50:47 GMT 1
With respect to lindalovely, your experience of the NHS appears to be based around London, my experience was totally based around the Yorkshire area, so as allways we will have differant views and opinions of how things once worked. The NHS will always be difficult to get right it is a huge complex organisation. So are the French, German, Italian, Spanish et al systems too.
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Post by mangetout on Aug 12, 2022 8:32:37 GMT 1
Some facts.
Angers, City of approx 320k. 1 CHU, 3 large Cliniques, 1 state of the art Institute Cancerologie. Not counting beds in the Cancer Centre, there is 1 bed per 140 residents.
Swindon, town of approx 225k. I medium sized hospital. There is 1 bed per 562 residents.
Make of it what you will but I know where I'd rather work if I was a health service worker.
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Aardvark
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Living in soggy 22 and still wondering what's going on.
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Post by Aardvark on Aug 12, 2022 8:45:23 GMT 1
NHS Too many chiefs and not enough Indians.
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