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Post by greyman on Jul 27, 2021 17:17:15 GMT 1
Does anyone know of an English language guide to the basics of French savings products ? I'm aware of simple livret and livret A accounts but beyond that I am nervous of understanding the nuances of the risks involved. Assurance Vie is widely marketed and they all extol the benefits but it is the catches and downsides I am interested in and how to find a good provider !
I'm putting away cash for the medium term. Any advice ? Thanks
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Post by Dominic Best on Jul 27, 2021 18:01:40 GMT 1
I made an appointment to meet with my bank conseiller to talk about assurance vies. It was an hour well spent.
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suein56
Member
Southern Morbihan 56 Brittany
Posts: 7,392
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Post by suein56 on Jul 27, 2021 18:48:20 GMT 1
I'm putting away cash for the medium term. Any advice ? Thanks I have 2 Ass Vie .. one, taken out not long after we arrived in France, which is simply the French equivalent of a UK cash ISA. This is with Ing. It is OK but not dynamic. The other Ass Vie (with Fortuneo) has 2 branches to it .. a small part in a savings-type account as per the Ing a/c but with a consistently better return. The second part I have invested in shares and permitted investment-type French equivalents of UK unit trusts. This can be more volatile but definitely worth a bit of a risk. Dominic is quite right to say that an hour spent with a well-versed Bank agent would be well-spent .. but the majority of agents, to my knowledge, are chocolate teapots in that they are paid bonuses to push the investment which gives the Bank the best return via charges. And the charges can be weighty. Online the charges are much less and the returns usually better. I had good advice from someone online a few years ago .. the crux of which was to avoid Ass Vie from on-ground Banks as their charges (and performance) could often be eye-wateringly bad. There are comparison charts online if you Google.
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Post by Dominic Best on Jul 27, 2021 19:25:49 GMT 1
I understand that any conversation with a bank employee will be biased to the product that they are hoping to sell but in fact I had a good insight into the way that an assurance vie can be organised, the balance between cash and investments and the levels of risk possible within the framework. It was quite educational.
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Nifty
Member
Posts: 4,881
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Post by Nifty on Jul 20, 2022 21:32:54 GMT 1
Probably the best advice that I ever got but never took was to split one’s wadge into three.
Guilts. Treat yourself, Have a gamble on what you fancy,
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Post by hal on Jul 20, 2022 22:35:39 GMT 1
I would steer well clear of any bank manager! They all are locked in a Victor Hugo world and the extent of their wealth management is an ass. vie that might pay 1% p.a. They have no concept of what is happening outside their little fortress, eg that inflation is well into 9% this year, making anything they hold for you a devaluing asset.
Loyalty is to whoever pays you. So called bank managers have no regard for what you want, but prefer to prop up their own over inflated products that earns them lots of bonus.
If you are unable or unwilling to invest yourself, seek out an independent Patrimoine Gestione. But never a bank manager. Anywhere.
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Post by pcpa on Jul 20, 2022 22:49:53 GMT 1
I agree, a good friend was for a while the directrice of my agence, one of the most intelligent French ladies I have met and has since been promoted on to higher echelons.
We had a meeting about investments and it was pretty much what everyone has said, she knew her stuff but also when not to go beyond her competence and to refer my to another expert, but yes, bottom line they are pushing what gets them the best return not the client and their cut is guaranteed any capital gains or interest for the investor is at best pot luck, at worst a pipe dream.
She got to speaking evangelically about their star investment fund I could not contain myself and burst out laughing when she said it was invested in UK commercial property, the bubble was well and truly about to burst and had already in many city centre locations but of course it had seen the headline growth in previous years that would seduce the pigeons, I left my money sitting in the current account earning zero interest and with me paying them for the priveledge.
What neither of us knew then was that Covid was about to strike the world, just as well that UK commercial property investment was not for me, the money in the account sustained me for the last 2 years without income and has bought my new house.
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Nifty
Member
Posts: 4,881
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Post by Nifty on Jul 21, 2022 1:24:10 GMT 1
Can anybody tell me anything about Block Chain ?
I realise that it is probably not a French savings product. But, what does it matter?
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Post by hal on Jul 21, 2022 7:37:40 GMT 1
A blockchain is only digital proof that you are attached to a crypto/cyber product - it is the product, usually Bitcoin, that you are attached to is the problem to understand.
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Nifty
Member
Posts: 4,881
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Post by Nifty on Jul 21, 2022 8:09:51 GMT 1
How can you add real value to the product?
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Post by chrisell on Jul 21, 2022 10:51:34 GMT 1
Assurance Vie is simply a tax efficient wrapper. Its the French version of an isa if you like. As already said two broad types - cash (low interest rates) or stocks/shares. You can get them from a range of EU companies - Ireland and Luxembourg are the main two outside France They come with a range of charges - some are designed for huge investments others are more mainstream. The options are more limited than an ISA for investment types - there's no limits on how much you invest but tax breaks really start after 8 years. The two main expat financial advisors companies sell reasonable products and a lot of the AV are only available via a financial advisor- Boursarama and Fortunes do decent products without a financial advisor and the high street banks sell generally poor performing products - and usually insist you must have a cash fund (you dont have to). Average growth is in the 5% region - but there are better than average products .....
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Post by hal on Jul 21, 2022 11:13:38 GMT 1
How can you add real value to the product? You alone cannot. A product, be it open commercial market or crypto, will only grow by the demand from others on the product.
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exile
Member
Massif Central
Posts: 2,670
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Post by exile on Jul 21, 2022 11:41:00 GMT 1
And described like that sounds very much like a Ponzi product.
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Post by hal on Jul 21, 2022 11:52:31 GMT 1
Nothing to with Ponzi. Growth, and therefore value, is a physical increase from demand on a product. A Ponzi scheme is totally different based on luring investors on a promise of growth.
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Post by chrisell on Jul 21, 2022 12:56:55 GMT 1
Nothing to with Ponzi. Growth, and therefore value, is a physical increase from demand on a product. A Ponzi scheme is totally different based on luring investors on a promise of growth. The problem - ignoring the volatility - is the endless new cryptocurrencies and NFTs with little by way of control and are Ponzi schemes in reality.
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