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Post by pcpa on Oct 8, 2022 13:17:17 GMT 1
When I asked "please explain why" it was because you said that one or more AV's would be my best bet but from your explanation they are not at all relevant to my circumstances and needs as I described them.
Before I discount them completely can anybody confirm or deny that the initial capital invested can not go down and what is a typical term?
Only in France would there be a cost at all to withdraw your own money at the end of a term let alone a more favorable one.
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Post by Seaboots on Oct 8, 2022 13:24:21 GMT 1
When I asked "please explain why" it was because you said that one or more AV's would be my best bet but from your explanation they are not at all relevant to my circumstances and needs as I described them. Before I discount them completely can anybody confirm or deny that the initial capital invested can not go down and what is a typical term? Only in France would there be a cost at all to withdraw your own money at the end of a term let alone a more favorable one. I hope you find what you’re looking for. They are working for me, but I’m sure my situation was different to yours. Good luck.
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Post by chrisell on Oct 8, 2022 13:39:05 GMT 1
There are differing types of AV - you can have pure interest cash AVs (why you'd bother is a different question given the rates) - and even within stocks/investments there's different levels of risk.
The 8 year break point is where your "income" gets some breaks on social charges. Most do have a separate early redemption fee - although it doesn't apply usually for regular drawdown - so most allow you to take an income inside the 5 years without penalty.
After that it's read and take proper advice - thete are so many products it's working out which one suits you.
Remember the social charges etc are on "gain" once taken out. So if your av has grown by 100% - ignoring the 8 year breaks - your chargeable income is 50% of what you withdraw - in simple terms. So take 30k a year - 15k is your "taxable" bit.
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Post by pcpa on Oct 8, 2022 13:56:36 GMT 1
They sound complicated to the point that many people will give up and say "which one do you reckon is best for me and where do I sign?" to the very person who is going to benefit far more than you from the product and to whom you are probably paying a fee as well as all the kickbacks they will get. Thats what is attractive to me about the UK type fixed rate bonds, X percent return guaranteed over Y years, you can put in between X thousand and Y millions, your capital cannot reduce, the interest rate will not vary, these are the early redemption penalties.............. - What else is there to want to know? Are there any products like that in France?
And I ask again, can the capital sum invested in an Assurance Vie go down? I'm really surprised that those who hold them do not immediately know the answer to that hence the first line of this posting.
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Post by chrisell on Oct 8, 2022 14:12:35 GMT 1
And I ask again, can the capital sum invested in an Assurance Vie go down? I'm really surprised that those who hold them do not immediately know the answer to that hence the first line of this posting. [/div][/quote] It depends what you choose - it's exactly the same decision as with ISA in the UK. There are interest only options - the returns aren't great but no you don't run a risk of losses (unless you include inflation) - any stock related investment has a risk so that's part of the territory .....it's why you invest long term and choose the right fund for your risk appetite. Most (all) advisors would point you at low risk options given you ain't a spring chicken anyway.
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Post by Seaboots on Oct 8, 2022 14:51:54 GMT 1
They sound complicated to the point that many people will give up and say "which one do you reckon is best for me and where do I sign?" to the very person who is going to benefit far more than you from the product and to whom you are probably paying a fee as well as all the kickbacks they will get. Thats what is attractive to me about the UK type fixed rate bonds, X percent return guaranteed over Y years, you can put in between X thousand and Y millions, your capital cannot reduce, the interest rate will not vary, these are the early redemption penalties.............. - What else is there to want to know? Are there any products like that in France?
And I ask again, can the capital sum invested in an Assurance Vie go down? I'm really surprised that those who hold them do not immediately know the answer to that hence the first line of this posting.
That’s easy to answer pcpa. In my case, my capital hasn’t gone down in the 17 years I’ve had my two. The first 7 years they made up to 6% with little risk and when the markets weren’t so bouyant the interest dropped to about 3%. There is a minimum guarantee set at 2% in my original agreement. I changed my type of AV to SCPI s which meant the money was reinvested in a different way and I have had about 5 to 6% interest since. I could invest in higher risk which could give me more than 10% but I’m happy with the low risk idea.
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Post by pcpa on Oct 8, 2022 14:59:29 GMT 1
Thankyou to you both for those explanations, I am more open to the concept now (thumbsup but no icon on this forum) you ain't a spring chicken anyway. I am, well in mind and body at least but I have no intention of working again for others when I should now have enough to live on (subject to how long I live)and certainly not working to recoup losses where others have taken commissions which are at no risk to them. Or indeed as has been said to the Credit Agricole or any of the other equally useless banks that I binned off over the years before and after ending up there.
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Post by lapourtaider on Oct 8, 2022 16:40:05 GMT 1
I would say an AV or two would be your best bet if you don’t need to touch the capital. Can you please explain why? I wont need to touch the capital for a couple of years and can commit to that but something life changing may happen, beyond that I'm sure I will end up buying another property or properties for rental income. But am I incorrect in thinking that the capital value could reduce according to the markets? If not then it 100% is not the best but would be the worst investment for me at my time of life. I'm sorry but you will have to explain that for me, perhaps I am being very slow today. I ask again, is there anything like the UK fixed term fixed rate bonds available in France? If you had googled obligation you would have found that they are the equivalent of a UK fixed rate bond.
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Post by Seaboots on Oct 8, 2022 17:28:31 GMT 1
Can you please explain why? I wont need to touch the capital for a couple of years and can commit to that but something life changing may happen, beyond that I'm sure I will end up buying another property or properties for rental income. But am I incorrect in thinking that the capital value could reduce according to the markets? If not then it 100% is not the best but would be the worst investment for me at my time of life. I'm sorry but you will have to explain that for me, perhaps I am being very slow today. I ask again, is there anything like the UK fixed term fixed rate bonds available in France? If you had googled obligation you would have found that they are the equivalent of a UK fixed rate bond. AVs are not ‘fixed rate’, far from it and the duration of a fr bond is lower.
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Post by lapourtaider on Oct 8, 2022 22:19:23 GMT 1
If you had googled obligation you would have found that they are the equivalent of a UK fixed rate bond. AVs are not ‘fixed rate’, far from it and the duration of a fr bond is lower. I never said AVs were fixed rate....
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Post by lindalovely on Oct 9, 2022 11:20:13 GMT 1
I have an AV with prudential. It's a product designed specifically for British citizens living in France. It so far has performed very well. It's sold through Spectrum IFA if anyone is interested.
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Post by houpla on Oct 9, 2022 12:57:28 GMT 1
Thanks for the info, Linda. In view of the fiscalité aspects of an AV, I'm looking into other options! Is your AV still appropriate given your French nationality or does dual nationality take care of that?
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Post by hal on Oct 9, 2022 13:19:42 GMT 1
Pcpa, you do well to ask about capital going down as it is a topical point this year with high inflation on the horizon.
An AV is only a ‘wrapper in which a financial package is managed. Many financial packages will keep the capital at its invested level, which means that is losing its value in real terms by the rate of inflation. Other packages will rely on the markets to determine the value up or down.
For you, the ideal will be to have your capital increase with inflation and give you a 4% income on top. Difficult but possible.
My suggestion is tal to a Patrimoine Gestion expert. There are some good ones around, so worth pursuing.
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Post by pcpa on Oct 9, 2022 14:43:00 GMT 1
Thankyou Hal, your advice is appreciated
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Post by taffy on Oct 9, 2022 16:38:06 GMT 1
I have an AV with prudential. It's a product designed specifically for British citizens living in France. It so far has performed very well. It's sold through Spectrum IFA if anyone is interested. We have the same product & can also confirm its good performance - just short of 40% increase over nine years; BUT consider the well worn advice about past performance not being a guide to future performance! Also we were advised that the policy is transferable to the UK without encashment, if that is a relevant factor.
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