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Post by hal on Oct 18, 2022 19:33:05 GMT 1
Is there a Trading Standards Agency in France? If so, is it central or regionalised? Does it have clout?
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Post by gigi on Oct 18, 2022 21:01:30 GMT 1
There’s the DGCCRF (Direction générale de la consommation, de la concurrence et de la répression des fraudes).
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Post by hal on Oct 19, 2022 7:02:32 GMT 1
Thanks gigi. This is really helpful and exactly what I may need. Just been into their website where it looks easy to contact them. Do you know if they are effective - ie traders fear them ?
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Post by annabellespapa on Oct 19, 2022 8:40:14 GMT 1
Hal, I tried to use them a few years back on a shower cabin that was not fit for purpose, the DIY store was not interested as we had attempted to install it ... (how else would you know it was broken with missing parts) and failed because of missing and broken parts, it turned out it had previously been returned by a customer and put back into 'stock'.
Contacted the DGCCRF and explained the situation in writing, never received a reply, phoned them and they said as it was not fraud, there was nothing I could do. I returned the broken shower cabin to the store, via their service door, thrown from the back of my van, glass and broken shower cabin everywhere, very childish but I felt good for a time.
As most large businesses in France are franchises, each store seem to have their own made up policy on 'trading standards', I hope it has changed and you get a satisfactory result but I doubt it.
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Post by gigi on Oct 19, 2022 9:28:49 GMT 1
I really hope the DGCCRF can help you, Hal - although Annabellespapa’s experience doesn’t give much hope. Someone I knew years ago had help from them to resolve a problem.
I wonder if Que Choisir can give advice about your problem? (French equivalent of consumer rights charity organisation Which?)
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Post by hal on Oct 19, 2022 10:10:39 GMT 1
I symapathise with you re the shower cabin. France is terrible for just putting things back in stock (maybe everywhere is...) hoping that the problem will go away.
In my case I bought something online - a 'quad benne' - that is late in delivery with all the usual excuses! After I bought it, I was alerted to lots of internet notices regarding late delivery. I believe that is their only problem and not one of complete dishonesty. Many of these small online shops get themselves out of control and end up operating a Ponzy scheme relying on new orders to satisfy the older ones and I believe this to be the case here.
So it might be the DGCCRF is exactly what I need. As the quad is of more value to me than my money back, I hope I can use the department as a threat and force my delivery 'up the queue'. I will let you know!
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Nifty
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Post by Nifty on Oct 19, 2022 11:23:04 GMT 1
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Aardvark
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Post by Aardvark on Oct 19, 2022 11:35:02 GMT 1
Hal, I tried to use them a few years back on a shower cabin that was not fit for purpose, the DIY store was not interested as we had attempted to install it ... (how else would you know it was broken with missing parts) and failed because of missing and broken parts, it turned out it had previously been returned by a customer and put back into 'stock'. Contacted the DGCCRF and explained the situation in writing, never received a reply, phoned them and they said as it was not fraud, there was nothing I could do. I returned the broken shower cabin to the store, via their service door, thrown from the back of my van, glass and broken shower cabin everywhere, very childish but I felt good for a time.
As most large businesses in France are franchises, each store seem to have their own made up policy on 'trading standards', I hope it has changed and you get a satisfactory result but I doubt it. Respect! I would love to have been there to see that. I once pushed a defective fridge freezer through the front door of a Carrefour but sadly it didn't explode in any noticeable fashion. It was after a 5 month fight with them to replace what had been defective from day one. After a long saga of them insisting they had the right to repair the POS and sending it for repair twice with no repair actually being made, scratching it badly getting it off the van when it arrived, leaving two thick black grease tyre marks on my floor, an attempted on-site regassing which involved soldering the tubes and melting a section of the door seal and to top it off, a carefully crafted letter of complaint addressed to the regional manager that gained no response in any form. I have since learned that supermarkets that sell large appliances have some arrangement with manufacturers/distributors that absolves them of responsibility so the supermarkets send items to a contracted third party for repair. These third parties, due to sheer volume, take ages to fix something and often have no experience with the particular item. I would therefore never buy anything larger than a toaster from a supermarket and never buy something in France assuming I will be covered by a satisfactory waranty.
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Post by pcpa on Oct 19, 2022 12:05:10 GMT 1
You can threaten to use the DGCCRF but using them to threaten the merchant would require them to respond to you rather than file your letter in the bin which is not going to happen.
However if enough people like yourself report the company there is a slim chance that they may take action regarding their delivery claims and that future clients will not be mislead, wanting to use the DGCCRF to jump the queue over others is poor form and is not within their mandate.
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cernunnos
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Post by cernunnos on Oct 19, 2022 13:33:20 GMT 1
If you have a good insurance , it usually includes a lawyer , who can then put your case to whoever you have a problem with ?
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Post by annabellespapa on Oct 19, 2022 14:04:10 GMT 1
In my case I bought something online - a 'quad benne' - that is late in delivery with all the usual excuses! After I bought it, I was alerted to lots of internet notices regarding late delivery. I believe that is their only problem and not one of complete dishonesty. Many of these small online shops get themselves out of control and end up operating a Ponzy scheme relying on new orders to satisfy the older ones and I believe this to be the case here. I got caught out in France two years ago, due to the pandemic, I was not able to get to France to cut my grass, so I asked a friend if he wouldn't mind doing it with my ride on mower, he did but he had terrible problems, my 2006 built McCulloch has lots of peculiar foibles that I just accepted and worked around. He mentioned to a joint friend that he had had a lot of problems and didn't mention it to me, I felt terrible and decided to buy a new one. I waited until I was in France next and looked online, I found the exact updated version of my ride on at a pretty good price. The companywas called 67Agrservices based in department 67 in a town call Berstheim, they all checked out and placed my order via my credit card (as a precaution). Delivery was to be made the next Saturday at 6pm. Saturday didn't happen and my OH started doing some digging and then found out via FB that there were many similar people in the same situation and we tried to contact them. One of the owners of the business actually answered the phone and told us that an ex-employee who was setting a website up for them was offering machinery, Kubota mini tractors etc for below market prices, I contacted my Halifax Visa card fraud services but as it was a distance selling, we had to wait 14 days until they could take any action, but after the 14 days they sent me a letter saying they were investigating but in the meantime they credited me the full cost, then said if after 3 months if I hadn't heard anything that it was then settled. I never heard another word and consider myself very lucky. Paid a bit more but bought one from the local dealer and very pleased I am, now having a local guy who knows his stuff.
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Post by pcpa on Oct 19, 2022 15:49:11 GMT 1
Very wise of you to have used a UK bank card, even though the protection is supposed to be the same in France your chance of any bank processing a Visa chargeback is close to zero, they even claim to have no knowledge of it which is probably true because even when its presented to them in irrefutable written form they will not search for it.
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Post by pcpa on Oct 19, 2022 15:57:27 GMT 1
The system is actually very good (I have used it myself) it requires very little action from the bank, I surmise that during the 14 days they contact the merchant via Visa to say there is a claim and could they resolve it with the client within 14 days, in the absence of a satisfactory outcome or response they refund immediately leaving the merchant 3 months to oppose it.
The crooks will have long since laundered the money and there will be nothing for Visa to take back from them.
Come to think of it when I had a good relation with Credit Agricole (a running partner was the Directrice) I did succeed in opposing a withdrawal that I had not authorised, Myferrylink fining me for not taking the return leg of a 24 hour crossing, it was 2 days before they declared bankruptcy so were not worried about losing a customer.
I did not see or ask my friend but the woman at the guichet knew of our friendship and unlike before nothing was too much trouble and the €30 was refunded, I doubt that MAstercard got it back though.
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Post by annabellespapa on Oct 19, 2022 15:57:47 GMT 1
Very wise of you to have used a UK bank card, even though the protection is supposed to be the same in France your chance of any bank processing a Visa chargeback is close to zero, they even claim to have no knowledge of it which is probably true because even when its presented to them in irrefutable written form they will not search for it. It was pure luck, I didn't have the money at the time so the UK credit card was used, I knew about the protection but never had to use it and never thought it would actually mean I got all my money back but I would of thought the perpetrator would of had difficulty getting the money into and out of his French bank account.
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Post by hal on Oct 20, 2022 9:44:32 GMT 1
OK. Now I feel guilty. 8 this morning, rubbing the sleep out of my eyes, a call. "...nous sommes a l'exterior de la maison..." Sure enough, a small truck with two of the nicest guys you could meet were unloading a pallet with a jumble of red things (it is only part assembled) swathed in polythene. Recognisable as a quad by the handle bars showing! Cafe et croisants enjoyed by all, and everyone happy. I guess the moral of the saga is 'do not always jump to conclusions'!
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