|
Post by hal on Nov 15, 2022 15:23:37 GMT 1
Wind it in please and for gawds sake, shut it up.
I have never driven into a 'bloody big hole under the Thames', never. I drove, on this occasion from Stansted to Folkestone using the M25. Did I go over a bridge, I do not know. Did I ever pass through a toll as one might expect if there is a charge? No. Did I see a large notice telling me to phone a number to pay a charge? No.
There is no need to get all arsey about driving through windy lanes in France, but yes I do. And I also drive on autoroutes in one of three cars each fitted with a tag that recognises where there is a charge not only in France but in other EU countries I drive in. Maybe you with your pompous talk can show me a photo of where there is such a notice on the M25?
You will have a field day on the internet replying to the many internet posts by French and Dutch drivers on their first trip using the M25 complaining exactly as I have. Some comments, mainly Dutch, are a lot juicier than mine - you could have a field day preaching to them.
|
|
|
Post by hal on Nov 15, 2022 15:25:34 GMT 1
3.05€ with 85.35€ amende!
|
|
|
Post by hal on Nov 15, 2022 15:40:26 GMT 1
Not all posters are pissing from the moral high ground ! Two months after the event is not bad really .
Perhaps there are those on the forum that travel that route frequently , that could shed some light on how it works ? Woops , looks like Sue has already done that !
It looks like Hal goes back to the UK in his own car from time to time and that his lack of paying the Dartford Charge has been noticed and he has been tracked down to his country of residence. I have no idea of the legal situation, if there is one for this situation, but it strikes me that lack of paying the charge now might, just might, make a future trip to the UK involving a car potentially awkward. Research might need to be done.
Sue, the legal situation is, from a lawyer buddy of mine, that anyone using the road is expected to know the impostion. A crazy legal interpretation of it is a dumb-ass situation. He further goes on to say that the Dartford crossing brings in £207M revenue but £40M is written off in uncollected tolls and fines - mainly from first time visitors - that would have paid for notices in bright lights with profit to spare, but that the authorities are not bright enough to see this. He went on further, that yes, non-payers are on a database, but this too had to be abandoned as the authorities did not appreciate that there is a high turnover in second hand car sales causing wasted time in pulling over new owners! For anyone such as cernunnos who might be caught in the same situation, and to maintain the moral ground to an extent, pay the actual charge as requested with a stern letter to the Highways Agency voicing concerns of how ludicrous it all is: Customer Service Manager Dart Charge Customer Services PO Box 842 Leeds LS1 9QF I forgot the last bit of the farce: The Dartford Crossing charge is operated by, of all people EMOVIS! French of course, as is most service operators in brexitland... How difficult would it be to install an electronic reader on a gantry to pip the European cars, most of which will have a tag on their windscreen?
|
|
|
Post by beejay on Nov 15, 2022 16:38:58 GMT 1
It looks like Hal goes back to the UK in his own car from time to time and that his lack of paying the Dartford Charge has been noticed and he has been tracked down to his country of residence. I have no idea of the legal situation, if there is one for this situation, but it strikes me that lack of paying the charge now might, just might, make a future trip to the UK involving a car potentially awkward. Research might need to be done.
Sue, the legal situation is, from a lawyer buddy of mine, that anyone using the road is expected to know the impostion. A crazy legal interpretation of it is a dumb-ass situation. He further goes on to say that the Dartford crossing brings in £207M revenue but £40M is written off in uncollected tolls and fines - mainly from first time visitors - that would have paid for notices in bright lights with profit to spare, but that the authorities are not bright enough to see this. He went on further, that yes, non-payers are on a database, but this too had to be abandoned as the authorities did not appreciate that there is a high turnover in second hand car sales causing wasted time in pulling over new owners! For anyone such as cernunnos who might be caught in the same situation, and to maintain the moral ground to an extent, pay the actual charge as requested with a stern letter to the Highways Agency voicing concerns of how ludicrous it all is.
There are plenty of signs on the M25 prior to the crossing and some are in bright lights aka VMS (Variable Messaging System) nonetheless the system could be improved judging by the number of drivers who fail to associate the signs with the crossing. Failing to notice that they had crossed a very large bridge is more worrying
Of course, there is a database of non-payers. UK vehicles' registered owners are pursued by means of warning letters followed by legal action which can lead to a County Court judgement affecting credit rating. Second hand car sales have no effect on proceedings as the registered keeper at the time of the crossing will still be traced.
Foreign light vehicle drivers are not pursued as there is no simple way of recovering the outstanding charge or penalty in a foreign country. However, commercial drivers may be followed up at a later by a "trap" at the entrance to the tunnel using a very effective barrier system. Those drivers can have penalties collected by the crossing staff or the vehicle impounded.
The use of a debt collection company by the DC seems to be a new approach as it's never appeared before in the several forums, related to motoring offences, that I use.
BTW it's possible to provide an estimate of the number of crossings in advance on the Dart website and have them debited to a card as each one is made. Alternatively, regular users can set up an account.
Edit: Setting up card readers to recognise foreign windcreen tags ain't going to happen after they spent a fortune removing the card readers.
|
|
|
Post by crabtree on Nov 15, 2022 16:47:00 GMT 1
Wind it in please and for gawds sake, shut it up. I have never driven into a 'bloody big hole under the Thames', never. I drove, on this occasion from Stansted to Folkestone using the M25. Did I go over a bridge, I do not know. Did I ever pass through a toll as one might expect if there is a charge? No. Did I see a large notice telling me to phone a number to pay a charge? No. There is no need to get all arsey about driving through windy lanes in France, but yes I do. And I also drive on autoroutes in one of three cars each fitted with a tag that recognises where there is a charge not only in France but in other EU countries I drive in. Maybe you with your pompous talk can show me a photo of where there is such a notice on the M25? You will have a field day on the internet replying to the many internet posts by French and Dutch drivers on their first trip using the M25 complaining exactly as I have. Some comments, mainly Dutch, are a lot juicier than mine - you could have a field day preaching to them. Here is a sign 4 miles out from the toll, in the direction you would have been driving.
Here is a sign painted on the road as you approach the crossing in the direction you were travelling. I will post 2 more in my next post.
|
|
|
Post by crabtree on Nov 15, 2022 16:51:05 GMT 1
Here are two photos showing a close up of the toll and one slightly wider showing it on the side of the road and this was also in the direction you would have been travelling.
To me these photos clearly prove that there is a toll ahead.
France, along with other EU countries are doing away with toll booths in the coming years, so get used to not stopping at a barrier!
|
|
|
Post by hal on Nov 15, 2022 17:17:48 GMT 1
OK! OK! I am the big bad person here! And do you know what? I give not a rat’s ass thought to the whole thing!
As far as motorways go, because an elderly lady died and buried that day, i was able to do 70 all the way down the M25, and boy, did it show up what a crock of crap your motorways construction is!! Who are the useless engineers on these things? Bump, bump, bumping along! And you have the cheek to carge a toll! You are having a laff!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2022 17:40:23 GMT 1
Prisons are full of people who claim they were not guilty of the crime 1. Why would you get a fine if it was not your car. 2. Were you hoping to use this thread for your defence. 3. If you admit the offence you will fell better I have seen that in films Who has ever heard of mistakes being made.
|
|
garbo
Non-gamer
Posts: 118
|
Post by garbo on Nov 15, 2022 17:48:29 GMT 1
Should have gone to specsavers!!
|
|
|
Post by houpla on Nov 15, 2022 18:28:05 GMT 1
OK! OK! I am the big bad person here! And do you know what? I give not a rat’s ass thought to the whole thing! As far as motorways go, because an elderly lady died and buried that day, i was able to do 70 all the way down the M25, and boy, did it show up what a crock of crap your motorways construction is!! Who are the useless engineers on these things? Bump, bump, bumping along! And you have the cheek to carge a toll! You are having a laff! Hang on a minute! What's all this 'your' and 'you' moopoo? This would be your perspective on Britain from an American's point of view, yes? Bit pointless on a French forum, non? Were you really expecting pats on the back and sympathy? Arrogance very rarely wins support. Thought you would have noticed that by now Then again, observational skills aren't your forté, are they?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2022 18:56:19 GMT 1
Just as well it was the UK and not Kabul, they have tummel police checking tickets at the other end. You would have had no right hand by now which would make postings on forums a lot slower.
|
|
|
Post by pcpa on Nov 15, 2022 19:27:33 GMT 1
Well he gets a pat on the back from me and some jealousy, I had a decent collection of car park tickets and would have liked a Dartford Crossing one to add to it but they never ever sent anything to me.
Even if you know you should pay and to be fair the signs are large enough to see they are not large enough to tell you how to actually pay, even if you want to pay physically doing so is very very difficult and if like me you dont have a smartphone pretty much impossible, same deal with the congestion charge from the very first day it was introduced and I was working at TFL at that time, it involved a 15 minute walk from their headquarters to a corner shop whose terminal was not working anyway.
Even back in those days, 1999 they had an arrangement with Europarking I think to collect (not) fines from Europe but it was not used other than for a couple of high profile cases, politicians, celebs etc, sufficient just to say that it was there to ensure compliance from those doubting/hesitating.
Not enforceable in France, if you read it carefully you will find that it's not a fine, because you have not been convicted of any offence, it will be words like "a voluntary payment to a avoid a possible (not) pursuit in justice" by the same token the UK authorities have no powers to take action against you if you were not minded to make a voluntary payment of €83 with a €3.50 crossing charge.
|
|
|
Post by pcpa on Nov 15, 2022 19:29:46 GMT 1
Question - is this fine enforceable in France? Is it best to pay in case I will be nabbed next time? No and you would not be, your choice whether to pay the €3.50, I would not pay the €83.
|
|
|
Post by houpla on Nov 15, 2022 19:33:45 GMT 1
Isn't the point that several members have made that the problems start if and when you go back to UK in the same vehicle. They might not actively pursue the payment in a foreign country, but they could make life difficult (more difficult?) over there on subsequent visits.
|
|
|
Post by pcpa on Nov 15, 2022 19:41:34 GMT 1
How difficult would it be to install an electronic reader on a gantry to pip the European cars, most of which will have a tag on their windscreen? More than difficult, impossible with the free flowing design of the current set up which is exactly why youw ere unaware, any non English speakers would have no clue even if they saw the signs. There used to be a proximity tag system called the Dart-tag, I had one in 1992 when I was working in Waltham Abbey, that required you to be at virtually a standstill while driving between the reader colombs which were very cloely spaced, current technology as used on the French autoroutes will pick up an active tag at the limit they post on the auto-tolls (30kph? I've never used one) and the passageway between the readers and/or the overhead gantry is very narrow, to do that with the 4 lane motorway (I think) on either side of the Dartford Tunnel and QE2 Bridge would slow traffic down to a standstill as the toll booths used to. The current system is designed to not slow down traffic at all, they have saved a fortune in toll booth operator salaries, building and maintaining toll booths and barriers, they lose some money from Foreign drivers like you and I but its more than made up for in the disproportional fines that any UK driver recieves who either forget or was not able to pay the charge via their smartphone or by telephone (I tried and lost the will to live, it was from that point on that I stopped bothering), they have no choice but to pay the fine because being a UK resident it will escalate. You have a choice and you will make it according to how you feel and not be being judged by others.
|
|