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Post by pcpa on Nov 15, 2022 19:42:35 GMT 1
Isn't the point that several members have made that the problems start if and when you go back to UK in the same vehicle. They might not actively pursue the payment in a foreign country, but they could make life difficult (more difficult?) over there on subsequent visits. They cannot so they wont.
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Post by Polarengineer on Nov 16, 2022 9:50:42 GMT 1
Maybe pcpa should start a crowdfunding for Hal to help pay for all the fines he might get, all the repairs to his car suspension and new specs when he gets back to UK.(if he can find the road).
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Post by beejay on Nov 16, 2022 13:57:21 GMT 1
How difficult would it be to install an electronic reader on a gantry to pip the European cars, most of which will have a tag on their windscreen? More than difficult, impossible with the free flowing design of the current set up which is exactly why youw ere unaware, any non English speakers would have no clue even if they saw the signs. There used to be a proximity tag system called the Dart-tag, I had one in 1992 when I was working in Waltham Abbey, that required you to be at virtually a standstill while driving between the reader colombs which were very cloely spaced, current technology as used on the French autoroutes will pick up an active tag at the limit they post on the auto-tolls (30kph? I've never used one) and the passageway between the readers and/or the overhead gantry is very narrow, to do that with the 4 lane motorway (I think) on either side of the Dartford Tunnel and QE2 Bridge would slow traffic down to a standstill as the toll booths used to. The current system is designed to not slow down traffic at all, they have saved a fortune in toll booth operator salaries, building and maintaining toll booths and barriers, they lose some money from Foreign drivers like you and I but its more than made up for in the disproportional fines that any UK driver recieves who either forget or was not able to pay the charge via their smartphone or by telephone (I tried and lost the will to live, it was from that point on that I stopped bothering), they have no choice but to pay the fine because being a UK resident it will escalate. You have a choice and you will make it according to how you feel and not be being judged by others.
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Post by beejay on Nov 16, 2022 14:36:04 GMT 1
More than difficult, impossible with the free flowing design of the current set up which is exactly why youw ere unaware, any non English speakers would have no clue even if they saw the signs. There used to be a proximity tag system called the Dart-tag, I had one in 1992 when I was working in Waltham Abbey, that required you to be at virtually a standstill while driving between the reader colombs which were very cloely spaced, current technology as used on the French autoroutes will pick up an active tag at the limit they post on the auto-tolls (30kph? I've never used one) and the passageway between the readers and/or the overhead gantry is very narrow, to do that with the 4 lane motorway (I think) on either side of the Dartford Tunnel and QE2 Bridge would slow traffic down to a standstill as the toll booths used to. The current system is designed to not slow down traffic at all, they have saved a fortune in toll booth operator salaries, building and maintaining toll booths and barriers, they lose some money from Foreign drivers like you and I but its more than made up for in the disproportional fines that any UK driver recieves who either forget or was not able to pay the charge via their smartphone or by telephone (I tried and lost the will to live, it was from that point on that I stopped bothering), they have no choice but to pay the fine because being a UK resident it will escalate. You have a choice and you will make it according to how you feel and not be being judged by others.
Dart Charge is an eight lane free flow system and it is possible to drive through at 30mph.
Dart Charge have a reputation for being tolerant with first time non-payers but do follow up those that do not respond to their letters. Obviously, foreign owners don't get any correspondence as their details are unknown.
A UK owner ignoring the penalty will eventually end up at court with a Charge Certificate being issued followed by a Court Order and could result in the vehicle liable to clamping by bailiffs anywhere in the UK. Dart Charge non-payment
As someone who is very capable judging by your posts why is paying a toll beyond your abilities or is it really about not paying because you can get away with it? I recall your posts on day trip ferry crossings.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2022 15:11:44 GMT 1
Quite often on the following the Gendarme programs they catch non French registered cars on the autoroute when they have gone through the toll barrier without paying and when they check out the reg number it shows when they have done it in the past, they make them pay up on the spot and if you listen to riviera radio which has some good music you here of tourists cars being towed away as they have so many outstanding parking tickets. No idea if it's the same in the UK for tourists cars but could be a bummer to come out of somewhere and your car has gone.
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garbo
Non-gamer
Posts: 118
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Post by garbo on Nov 16, 2022 17:41:45 GMT 1
Three years ago I was driving in Switzerland & got flashed by a speed camera. The letter was delivered to my UK address exactly a year later. The fine was £450 for doing approx 8km over the limit on a motorway slip road. I did think of not paying but read on the internet that these fines continue to increase if unpaid & can result in a debt of thousands. So I paid up. I would suggest you do the same & move on with your life. You did actually use the crossing so what’s your problem.
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Post by pcpa on Nov 16, 2022 19:23:16 GMT 1
As someone who is very capable judging by your posts why is paying a toll beyond your abilities or is it really about not paying because you can get away with it? I recall your posts on day trip ferry crossings. Sorry but I'm not biting. Ask the question in a reasonable manner and I would happily explain what the difficulty was, otherwise continue with a one way dialogue of imputations.
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Post by limousinlady on Nov 17, 2022 8:25:49 GMT 1
A couple of years ago, I took a hire car across the Dartford Bridge. I paid the fee online ahead or just after the crossing. Some months later, I got a notice and fine via the hire company to say that I hadn't paid the fee. After convoluted form filling, I appealed and could show I paid the fee at the time. However, the sum I had paid had been allocated to an already outstanding fee on the hire car. So I guess, next time,if ever, Hal,your car crosses the bridge, any sum you pay is allocated to the outstanding fee and a fine would be raised again as your subsequent crossing would show as unpaid.
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Post by beejay on Nov 17, 2022 15:20:42 GMT 1
As someone who is very capable judging by your posts why is paying a toll beyond your abilities or is it really about not paying because you can get away with it? I recall your posts on day trip ferry crossings. Sorry but I'm not biting. Ask the question in a reasonable manner and I would happily explain what the difficulty was, otherwise continue with a one way dialogue of imputations.
Actually, you've already answered it.
"not able to pay the charge via their smartphone or by telephone (I tried and lost the will to live, it was from that point on that I stopped bothering"
"your choice whether to pay the €3.50, I would not pay the €83"
Your previous user name was well chosen
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Post by pcpa on Nov 17, 2022 18:55:44 GMT 1
Fiil yer boots, I'm not coming out to play.
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Post by beejay on Nov 18, 2022 17:26:56 GMT 1
Fiil yer boots, I'm not coming out to play.
Spoilsport
Recent posts on another forum regarding attempted enforcement of UK motoring penalties on French owners HERE
This one ic TfL LEZ where a French owner has a bill for £600.
Seems the debt collectors are trying hard to find a way to "move forward"
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Post by pcpa on Nov 18, 2022 21:57:33 GMT 1
Interesting forum, if Hal is still looking in he should visit it.
"But although EPC sends what look like PCNs I think we've found they are really unenforceable debt collections and they rely on people being scared into paying up."
No change then in the 19 years that TFL and now presumably the Dartford Crossing have been selling peoples details to the Eurothugs.
If anybody pays these (not) fines don't think that any of the money even the toll fee will be going to the Dartford Crossing operator or TFL, they have already got their whack by selling on the (not) debt, no different to the Faux Huissiers that hassle you with (empty) threats of legal action if you have cancelled your car insurance or ADSL abonnement, they are all just parasitic thugs relying on fear and compliance.
Pay the toll fee direct to the operator by all means but don't give these parasites any money.
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Post by beejay on Nov 20, 2022 17:37:13 GMT 1
Interesting forum, if Hal is still looking in he should visit it. "But although EPC sends what look like PCNs I think we've found they are really unenforceable debt collections and they rely on people being scared into paying up." No change then in the 19 years that TFL and now presumably the Dartford Crossing have been selling peoples details to the Eurothugs. If anybody pays these (not) fines don't think that any of the money even the toll fee will be going to the Dartford Crossing operator or TFL, they have already got their whack by selling on the (not) debt, no different to the Faux Huissiers that hassle you with (empty) threats of legal action if you have cancelled your car insurance or ADSL abonnement, they are all just parasitic thugs relying on fear and compliance. Pay the toll fee direct to the operator by all means but don't give these parasites any money.
If TfL and Dart Charge et al have sold on their debts of course they have got some money from it that's the whole point of doing so. It's a common practice in business to reduce losses.
But the point is that the 'parasites' can only 'prey' on foreign owners. A non-paying UK registered owner will, eventually, be subjected to bailiffs collecting the sum due after various court procedures have taken place. Foreign offenders should also be subject to procedures allowing them, if required, to refute the claim, but unfortunately, Bxxt put paid to any expansion of the initial process of obtaining keepers details in relation to a very limited number of motoring offences.
No doubt with the expansion of LEZ, ULEZ and e-car concessions in the UK there will be many more foreign offenders and evaders? Will newly arrived barrier free French autoroutes suffer the same problem?
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Post by pcpa on Nov 20, 2022 22:42:42 GMT 1
Do you think more than 1%, 10% (pick your own number) of foreign drivers paid the toll fee even before Brexit?
The figures that I read a long time ago indicated otherwise, even if they wanted to and had no language barrier it was/is in most cases nigh on impossible. It was a conscious decision to lose some revenue in order to make massive savings on salaries and infrastructure and to keep the traffic flowing, the figures I read for lost revenue were a lot but as a percentage miniscule and more than 95% of it was foreign registered vehicles.
I doubt that there will be any more offenders especially now that the (not) fines are arriving on a few doorsteps in France.
You cannot leave a French autoroute witout paying the toll unless you tailgate someone and even then I would not be confident that the barrier would not come down, I was driving past the I thought unattended pay booth (as 99% are these days) to the ticket and card reader beyond it when an intermediate barrier came down really fast and smacked the windscreen, I had stopped but the barrier didn't, it was made of 40mm pvc tube and covered with a foam manchon, very little inertia so could accelerate really quickly, it gave me the shock of my life.
If you arrive at a péage without the means to pay they have very good systems to correctly identify you and allow you to continue your journey and pay on line later or get a really big fine, I lost my wallet and all my cards on the way down recently and had about 8 "pas de moyen de paiement" experiences including the same phone operator at the same toll 2 hours later, he thought I was mad until I explained that I had gone back to the aire de service where I lost the wallet hoping it had been handed in.
Actually there is another way to get through a French péage without paying, use an expired bank card or one from a closed account, due to the speed at which they operate validation of funds etc is not done, the reader simply checks for the code string indicating a bank or credit card.
Try it a second time and the barrier will not open and the flics will arrive, probably the same deal if the vehicle number plate is recorded on the autoroute.
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Post by beejay on Nov 21, 2022 14:47:15 GMT 1
Do you think more than 1%, 10% (pick your own number) of foreign drivers paid the toll fee even before Brexit? The figures that I read a long time ago indicated otherwise, even if they wanted to and had no language barrier it was/is in most cases nigh on impossible. It was a conscious decision to lose some revenue in order to make massive savings on salaries and infrastructure and to keep the traffic flowing, the figures I read for lost revenue were a lot but as a percentage miniscule and more than 95% of it was foreign registered vehicles. I doubt that there will be any more offenders especially now that the (not) fines are arriving on a few doorsteps in France. You cannot leave a French autoroute witout paying the toll unless you tailgate someone and even then I would not be confident that the barrier would not come down, I was driving past the I thought unattended pay booth (as 99% are these days) to the ticket and card reader beyond it when an intermediate barrier came down really fast and smacked the windscreen, I had stopped but the barrier didn't, it was made of 40mm pvc tube and covered with a foam manchon, very little inertia so could accelerate really quickly, it gave me the shock of my life. If you arrive at a péage without the means to pay they have very good systems to correctly identify you and allow you to continue your journey and pay on line later or get a really big fine, I lost my wallet and all my cards on the way down recently and had about 8 "pas de moyen de paiement" experiences including the same phone operator at the same toll 2 hours later, he thought I was mad until I explained that I had gone back to the aire de service where I lost the wallet hoping it had been handed in. Actually there is another way to get through a French péage without paying, use an expired bank card or one from a closed account, due to the speed at which they operate validation of funds etc is not done, the reader simply checks for the code string indicating a bank or credit card. Try it a second time and the barrier will not open and the flics will arrive, probably the same deal if the vehicle number plate is recorded on the autoroute.
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