|
Post by pcpa on Dec 19, 2022 16:52:42 GMT 1
Like the miners in the 70's.
|
|
|
Post by ForumUser2 on Dec 19, 2022 17:36:49 GMT 1
Supply and demand. The demand is high, supply is short therefore you have to pay more.
Recruitment and retention of clinical staff is NHS HR's biggest headache. Pay is a major driver.
If you want to recruit and keep good people you can't pay them peanuts.
|
|
|
Post by ForumUser2 on Dec 19, 2022 17:37:13 GMT 1
Like the miners in the 70's. About as different as it's possible to be.
|
|
|
Post by jackie on Dec 19, 2022 17:59:25 GMT 1
Not from what I gather. Nurses don't need to be agency to get off shifts. With 50,000 missing nurses there is no end of off shifts. So you think they work 24 hour shifts 7 days a week? I have been in relationships with several (too many) nurses, they all did agency work between their NHS shifts, some more than others, often in the exact same hospitals. Sounds like they should have instead been working voluntary unpaid double shifts, but then that sort of selfless person would not go on strike would they? I’m guessing this was some years ago in the UK and conditions and pay were better. Thats changed now.
|
|
|
Post by pcpa on Dec 19, 2022 19:36:03 GMT 1
Like the miners in the 70's. About as different as it's possible to be. The same.
The conditions (dirty, unpleasant, dangerous) they endured which justified the wage claim did not change when they won successive pay rises.
|
|
|
Post by ForumUser2 on Dec 19, 2022 20:03:58 GMT 1
About as different as it's possible to be. The same.
The conditions (dirty, unpleasant, dangerous) they endured which justified the wage claim did not change when they won successive pay rises.
Completely different. The mining industry was dying. Mineworkers' jobs became inessential. Clinical staff are essential and in short supply. There is no comparison.
|
|
|
Post by pcpa on Dec 19, 2022 20:11:33 GMT 1
Which has absolutely nothing to do with Tim17' observation which my response was to. All a 19% pay increase will do is placate nurses in the short term and maybe stop some from leaving, the pressures they face day to day will still be there. Do you ever use this forum for anything but sneering and being contrary?
|
|
|
Post by tim17 on Dec 20, 2022 12:00:21 GMT 1
You have to wonder what the thinking is behind the government's refusal to negotiate with any of the various striking organisations, they are already miles behind Labour in the polls and public support is fully behind the strikes so the Tories face total annihilation at the next GE if they continue with this stupidity.
|
|
|
Post by ForumUser2 on Dec 20, 2022 12:31:26 GMT 1
Which has absolutely nothing to do with Tim17' observation which my response was to. All a 19% pay increase will do is placate nurses in the short term and maybe stop some from leaving, the pressures they face day to day will still be there. Do you ever use this forum for anything but sneering and being contrary? Don't you ever tire of your own fairy tales?
|
|
|
Post by pcpa on Dec 20, 2022 14:30:15 GMT 1
I'll take that as a no then.
|
|
|
Post by omegal on Dec 20, 2022 14:34:48 GMT 1
Which has absolutely nothing to do with Tim17' observation which my response was to. Do you ever use this forum for anything but sneering and being contrary? Don't you ever tire of your own fairy tales? Are you saying pcpa never went with all those Nurses. Makes you wonder if he thought it was a good thing to show just what a Casanova he was, or perhaps he couldn't pull in real life but on here he can say he was a suited and booted handsome Nurse puller
|
|
|
Post by ForumUser2 on Dec 20, 2022 14:48:57 GMT 1
I'll take that as a no then. Whatever.
|
|
exile
Member
Massif Central
Posts: 2,670
Member is Online
|
Post by exile on Dec 20, 2022 14:57:54 GMT 1
You have to wonder what the thinking is behind the government's refusal to negotiate with any of the various striking organisations, they are already miles behind Labour in the polls and public support is fully behind the strikes so the Tories face total annihilation at the next GE if they continue with this stupidity. It's the "nothing to do with us" mentality. Train strikes - sorry your beef is with the operating companies, nothing to do with the government. [But note: the franchise agreements all say that pay negotiations have to be ratified by the appropriate minister. Are ministers leaning on the train operators to give low offers?] Nurses and other NHS workers - we have an independent pay review body for each group that determines pay so nothing to do with the government. [But note: the recommendations of the pay review bodies are not legally binding on the government and in the past they have ignored recommendations - usually in a negative way for the workers.] Further the review bodies reached their conclusions much earlier in the year based largely on data relating to 2021. Given what has happened to inflation in recent months, any conclusion taking that into effect is well out of date.
|
|
|
Post by lindalovely on Dec 20, 2022 16:14:20 GMT 1
Actually I don't think privatising the NHS will solve the problem of too many patients and not enough doctors, nurses etc.. All it means is that only those who can afford insurance will get treatment, as in the US. The French system wouldn't work in the UK because in France although most practitioners are private, they are heavily state regulated as to what they can charge. And they French system is also struggling, especially in rural areas.
Agency work has changed considerably. You are no longer allowed to do agency work for the trust in which you are employed, and in some jobs you have a sign a disclaimer to say you won't do other work at all, even unrelated wort such as bar work. I don't know how enforceable that is, but I do remember at least one person being disciplined for doing night shifts with an agency and then coming in to do their day shift. Most agency workers do it full time. It suits people who can't commit to full time permanent work. Trusts also have bank staff that sign up to cover shifts etc, but I guess some of them would be part of the industrial action. There are plenty of times that there are no agency or bank staff available to cover essential services.
|
|
|
Post by omegal on Dec 20, 2022 17:54:38 GMT 1
For many years now, the French have looked in to how the NHS works and the NHS has been to France to see how the French health care system works. So it would appear that both France and the UK feel that they can learn from each other but neither can turn their systems to the other, only seek ways to improve what they have now. It is true that for a long time now the French health system has been struggling and strikes here are very common as the system tries to reduce not only staff but hospitals. You can drive through small communes/villages in Brittany and you will see boards advertising for doctors, dentists, physios and so on. All over France ophthalmologists are in very short supply with many areas requiring 6 months onward for a rdv....
|
|