Nifty
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Post by Nifty on Feb 13, 2023 22:21:26 GMT 1
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Aardvark
Non-gamer
Living in soggy 22 and still wondering what's going on.
Posts: 1,787
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Post by Aardvark on Feb 14, 2023 11:13:45 GMT 1
Unable to play the video with no VPN & secret potion but I read about the Panorama subject elsewhere. I don't knowingly commit anything to the Cloud because I try to keep my data under personal control. Anyone that just "lets it happen" has more faith in encryption than I do.
Personally I think air travel, multinationals, mining, manufacturing, and agri-chemicals are doing more damage to the planet.
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Post by pcpa on Feb 14, 2023 12:59:34 GMT 1
Is it about the energy consumed by these data centres? I read a fightening statistic (if it was true) that the Irish Silicone valley accounts for something like 27% of the grid consumption, another similarly stupid figure for Bitcoin mining, I am very sceptical because if you add together the claimed figures for just a few activities like this they add up to several hundred percent. I watched a French TV program about the changing planet, loads of drone views of different natural and man made landscapes worldwide, the dialogue was the same for all of them "XYZ is responsable for (choose your figure) percent of global CO2 emissions" I kept a mental note of the growing total and lost count at 350%  I had always thought that phone calls, internet communication had virtually zero unit cost, a few electrons or light travelling along fibre optique, the fixed cost, the infrastructure, the equipment at either end being very high but whether or not I type this I dont believe any more or less quuantifiable electricity is being consumed. But seemingly the cost of keeping this data is very high which strikes me as ironic as my data is on my hard drive and I don't want to share it with anybody, but the data which these B-stewards are harvesting every time I visit a web site or take my phone with me when I go anywhere is seemingly very valuable and costing them loads of money to store. More fool them I say but when we have power shortages everywhere should whatever percentage of the national grid be used to store what to me is stolen personal data?
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exile
Member
Massif Central
Posts: 2,488
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Post by exile on Feb 14, 2023 15:08:36 GMT 1
I watched what I think was the original program. As suggested it is no just about storing your pictures and files in the cloud. Like aardvark, I don't knowingly use it and indeed keep getting messages from MS to say that tey cannot store my data until I update my account - good. Let's leave it that way.
The main issue was about the energy consumed to do what we consider as much more mundane things. IIRC they said that a 5 minute internet search would consume the same energy* as boiling a kettle full of water.
* consumed not on your meter but on some distant server.
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Post by pcpa on Feb 14, 2023 18:00:44 GMT 1
Kim Kardashians ar5e must have caused a global brown-out then 
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Post by pcpa on Feb 14, 2023 18:05:12 GMT 1
IIRC they said that a 5 minute internet search would consume the same energy* as boiling a kettle full of water. Whilst I 100% believe that they said that and that there will be some consumption outside of our metered supply from an internet search the above has to be Bravo Sugar. The frightening thing is how many people these days have lost or never even had the ability to question what is presented to them as fact and ask themselves "does this really seem plausible?" That was not aimed at you Exile.
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exile
Member
Massif Central
Posts: 2,488
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Post by exile on Feb 14, 2023 18:18:16 GMT 1
Is it BS though? My 1200W kettle boils water in under 2 minutes which would be 40W power over 5 minutes I have been in a small company server room and it was mighty warm with full ventilation going on. The fans running would have consumed more than 40W power over 5 minutes but that does have to be divided across all of the users. I am not sure it is a black and brown as you suggest.
I note that some of the big server stations are set up in Iceland where the cost of hydrothermal power is cheap and the ambient temperature for cooling is low.
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Aardvark
Non-gamer
Living in soggy 22 and still wondering what's going on.
Posts: 1,787
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Post by Aardvark on Feb 14, 2023 18:27:02 GMT 1
I recall a news item several years ago that some bitcoin mining operation in Holland was offering to pay the electricity bills for people who could offer a spare room to house the hardware. The benefit to the homeowner besides paying his bill, was the free heat the installed hardware would produce.............................allegedly.
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Post by pcpa on Feb 14, 2023 19:06:56 GMT 1
My 1200 watt kettle takes a lot longer than 2 minutes to boil even the minimum water quantity.
Say 0.7l, the capacity of my tiny kettle, temperature rise of 90° celcius at todays incoming water temperature.
4.18 joules to raise 1 gramme of water (= I Ml) through 1° Celcius
1 joule = 1 Newton Meter = 1 watt second
4.18 x 700 x 90 = 263340 joules
263340 divided by 120 seconds = 21945 watt seconds, close enough to 2.2kw, a kettle of that size with no heat losses to the casing or atmosphere could boil 0.7 litres of water in 2 minutes but a 1200 watt one could not.
Where do you get your 40 watts over 5 minutes from? That equates to 0.5 kwh and not 1.2kwh
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Post by pcpa on Feb 14, 2023 19:14:29 GMT 1
The energy required for cooling is insignificant compared to the energy used for the data processing that created the wasted heat, but surely that is spread across millions of users?
If each one required them using 2.2kwh of energy per 5 minutes there simply would not be the grid capacity to fullfill this and who would be paying for it, the advertisers?
OK I know its spread across lots fo server farms but the cost question remains the same, thats why I think the figure is BS, its implausible that when any of us do a 5 minute Google search someone is paying to boil a kettle of water for us!
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Post by pcpa on Feb 14, 2023 19:17:03 GMT 1
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exile
Member
Massif Central
Posts: 2,488
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Post by exile on Feb 14, 2023 19:20:15 GMT 1
Where do you get your 40 watts over 5 minutes from? That equates to 0.5 kwh and not 1.2kwh My kettle uses 1.2kW over 2 minutes to boil - 40W (yes I know that is not the precise energy term) = 1200/60x2 (the 1200 is KW per hour rating) According to the program that is the power consumed for my 5minute internet search. So my internet search consumes the equivalent of 40W over the 5 minutes. You are right though this is highly dependent on the size and type of kettle used.
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Post by pcpa on Feb 14, 2023 19:23:24 GMT 1
Also the choice of phrase "A five minute Google search" is deliberately misleading, we may well spend 5 minutes or even hours going down Google rabbitholes but the search itself which we initiate takes milliseconds for the results to appear, there is no such thing as a 5 minute Google search.
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Post by pcpa on Feb 14, 2023 19:26:11 GMT 1
My kettle uses 1.2kW over 2 minutes to boil - 40W To boil what quantity of water?
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Post by omegal on Feb 14, 2023 19:47:38 GMT 1
Don't tell him, Pike
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