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Post by pcpa on Mar 7, 2023 20:49:49 GMT 1
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Post by houpla on Mar 7, 2023 21:00:37 GMT 1
Then houpla remove your comment about economic migrant. I will suggest that many who came here did so as economic migrants - even if just running a gite or two instead of some high stress job in the uk. That is still being an economic migrant. Hey! I'm not arguing. But there's a vast and important difference between people who arrive in a country via legal methods, with the means to support themselves, whatever they are labelled, and those who arrive from a war-torn or politically unstable country who are genuine refugees, and those who, however desperate, have no means of supporting themselves and are prepared to break the law of their destination country just to gain entry, never mind what they do afterwards. I quite agree with you that the incompetent handling by the UK Gov is making a bad situation worse, but my point was that it's been going on for a long time so presumably not an easy problem to resolve. Letting everyone in and then trying to determine their status or rights afterwards is not the answer. |
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exile
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Massif Central
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Post by exile on Mar 7, 2023 21:07:27 GMT 1
From your comments I take it you do not recognise yourself as having been an economic migrant. Would you care to share your thought process for arriving at that conclusion please?
The following is a general comment and not aimed at you Exile.
Nobody should assume that it will be easy to return to their country of birth, you won't be put up in a hôtel and given an allowance. In 2005 after being away from the UK for 10 months I had to submit to a Right To Reside Test and also a Habitual Residency Test. The thought process is simple. Anyone who moves to another country to take up employment or to set up a business has moved with an economic advantage in mind. That makes them an economic migrants. That advantage may make them (knowingly or not) financially poorer than they were before - especially if their prime reason for the move was for a better life - whatever that may mean to each individual.* What happens if you try and go back is immaterial. Ask any Afghan translator what (s)he thinks the result of going home would be and I suggest your lack of hotel, allowance etc. would pale into insignificance. *My own case was very simple. Working for a UK company at a relatively senior operational level, when our bit of the business was sold to a German competitor, it was clear that the operational power centres would move to Germany and that was where I would need to be if my career was to progress. I took all steps to smooth the wheels to ensure that that was what happened. Within 10 years the UK operation had been closed and had I remained I would have been visiting the job centre. Clever choice on my part or simply looking realistically at future options? My choice was clearly economically driven. Hence economic migrant. Financially I was probably not much better off until closure of the UK units but in terms of prospects and future pathway (let alone standard of living) and there was no competition. Everyone's case will be different but I suggest that if making money in the new country of your choice forms a part of the strategy then they are economic migrants. At the end I think we are all looking for a better life - for us, for our children, for our loved ones. |
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Post by omegal on Mar 7, 2023 22:21:40 GMT 1
I put my hands up as coming to France as an economic migrant to seek a better life and earn a living for my family. The alternative is to come here in retirement with sufficient funds not to have to rely on benefits from the French. Then you have the Brits who came here without sufficient funds and had to then rely on cheap or free health (once called the CMU I believe) and other benefits, what would people pigeon hole those people as?
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Post by glazedallover on Mar 7, 2023 22:44:02 GMT 1
I put my hands up as coming to France as an economic migrant to seek a better life and earn a living for my family. The alternative is to come here in retirement with sufficient funds not to have to rely on benefits from the French. Then you have the Brits who came here without sufficient funds and had to then rely on cheap or free health (once called the CMU I believe) and other benefits, what would people pigeon hole those people as? Spongers ? Like me. I came here as 'inactif' after 'voluntary redundancy' but reckoned I had the funds and annuity to get by on. As it turned out I qualified for benefits that I never knew that I was entitled to , such as CMU (well remembered Omegal) in fact ACS , and the cheque energie. SO yes I am a sponger and claim my £5 . No make that 10. |
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exile
Member
Massif Central
Posts: 2,680
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Post by exile on Mar 7, 2023 22:59:59 GMT 1
I put my hands up as coming to France as an economic migrant to seek a better life and earn a living for my family. The alternative is to come here in retirement with sufficient funds not to have to rely on benefits from the French. Then you have the Brits who came here without sufficient funds and had to then rely on cheap or free health (once called the CMU I believe) and other benefits, what would people pigeon hole those people as? many - naïve. If we really have to pigeonhole people. That naivety probably fed by TV "buy a home in France of £20000 and live the good life " style property shows. " I know a builder who says he can make all of the changes for £5000" almost certainly ignored the charges from the electrician, plumber, tiler, roofer, carpenter and so on. |
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Post by omegal on Mar 7, 2023 23:44:36 GMT 1
I put my hands up as coming to France as an economic migrant to seek a better life and earn a living for my family. The alternative is to come here in retirement with sufficient funds not to have to rely on benefits from the French. Then you have the Brits who came here without sufficient funds and had to then rely on cheap or free health (once called the CMU I believe) and other benefits, what would people pigeon hole those people as? Spongers ? Like me. I came here as 'inactif' after 'voluntary redundancy' but reckoned I had the funds and annuity to get by on. As it turned out I qualified for benefits that I never knew that I was entitled to , such as CMU (well remembered Omegal) in fact ACS , and the cheque energie. SO yes I am a sponger and claim my £5 . No make that 10. Well it happens but the door is now closed, as of course since Brexit there is a princely sum of money required to qualify to live in France. So what happened to you was not rare in my experience here but now it may well be quite rare, although of course it will depend on how rigid the French continue to be as time goes on. |
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Post by jackie on Mar 8, 2023 9:06:02 GMT 1
Then houpla remove your comment about economic migrant. I will suggest that many who came here did so as economic migrants - even if just running a gite or two instead of some high stress job in the uk. That is still being an economic migrant. Hey! I'm not arguing. But there's a vast and important difference between people who arrive in a country via legal methods, with the means to support themselves, whatever they are labelled, and those who arrive from a war-torn or politically unstable country who are genuine refugees, and those who, however desperate, have no means of supporting themselves and are prepared to break the law of their destination country just to gain entry, never mind what they do afterwards. I quite agree with you that the incompetent handling by the UK Gov is making a bad situation worse, but my point was that it's been going on for a long time so presumably not an easy problem to resolve. Letting everyone in and then trying to determine their status or rights afterwards is not the answer. What laws are being broken trying to enter their destination country to claim asylum? This illegal migrant label is something that is peddled despite having no basis is law. My understanding is that the only illegal migrants are those who have had their claim rejected but refuse to leave. |
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Post by annabellespapa on Mar 8, 2023 9:18:45 GMT 1
So why do we bother presenting our passports on departure and arrival and why bother with the 90 days in 180 days rule, get yourself a dingy and just go where you fancy  |
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Post by mangetout on Mar 8, 2023 9:40:46 GMT 1
The government know this new bill will fail in the courts. They have spread fear amongst the population to keep them focused on anything but the mess the country is in. They will be able to say 'we tried to save you' but the lefties, Labour and the ECHR stopped us. But stick with us, we'll continue to fight on your behalf. They bang on about how they've helped Ukranians but apparently they took fewer than any other European country bar one. Lies and more lies. Evil cynics in my view.
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Post by pcpa on Mar 8, 2023 12:39:06 GMT 1
Would you care to share your thought process for arriving at that conclusion please? The thought process is simple..................... I never had you down as a halfwit Exile, perhaps you were being obtuse, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and explain in detail my question. Would you care to share your thought process for arriving at the conclusion that I do not consider myself an economic migrant please? |
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Post by omegal on Mar 8, 2023 14:34:15 GMT 1
So why do we bother presenting our passports on departure and arrival and why bother with the 90 days in 180 days rule, get yourself a dingy and just go where you fancy You first, annabellespapa |
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Post by jackie on Mar 10, 2023 14:36:31 GMT 1
So why do we bother presenting our passports on departure and arrival and why bother with the 90 days in 180 days rule, get yourself a dingy and just go where you fancy Yeah, sounds great fun…  |
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Post by lindalovely on Mar 10, 2023 14:36:33 GMT 1
As I've always said when asked by rather indignant Brits as to why I consider myself an economic migrant
We were able to buy enough land to build a house on and come out without a mortgage..something that would have been very difficult to do in the UK. We enjoy more space, a better quality of life and far less stress than we had in the UK..ie we moved here because we thought we could have a better life.
The response is usually 'well you aren't dependent on the state' and that is true apart from the bonuses we get occasionally because we have a relatively low income.. but then neither are the vast majority of imigrants that move for economic reasons.
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Nifty
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Post by Nifty on Mar 14, 2023 10:03:38 GMT 1
The government know this new bill will fail in the courts. They have spread fear amongst the population to keep them focused on anything but the mess the country is in. They will be able to say 'we tried to save you' but the lefties, Labour and the ECHR stopped us. But stick with us, we'll continue to fight on your behalf. They bang on about how they've helped Ukranians but apparently they took fewer than any other European country bar one. Lies and more lies. Evil cynics in my view. One can be pretty sure that Governments of this ilk will be keen to supply arms and it doesn’t matter who they are as long as there is a profit. |
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