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Post by tim17 on Mar 18, 2023 7:54:35 GMT 1
Pension reform had to happen and should have been done years ago, the speed of the changes and how they've been brought in is what has angered a lot of people.
I see there has been some comparison with the pension changes in the UK but at least people had years of notice, here the quite radical reforms (for France anyway) start this year.
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Post by houpla on Mar 18, 2023 7:58:39 GMT 1
3.8 million WASPIS might disagree with your second sentence...
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Post by tim17 on Mar 18, 2023 8:17:30 GMT 1
3.8 million WASPIS might disagree with your second sentence... Are you suggesting that the WASPI women didn't get years of notice? |
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Post by houpla on Mar 18, 2023 8:26:31 GMT 1
Yes. That's what they're protesting about, not the fact that the pension age was raised per se.
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mangetout
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Post by mangetout on Mar 18, 2023 8:39:40 GMT 1
I'm not an economist, nor even very numerate, so I listened to a Prof from Sciences Po in Paris the other day. He is an expert in this area. He said that there were 3 options to cover the current pensions deficit, only 1 of which involved raising the age. My view is that there is no reason why things should be done in the 'expected' way. We should think more innovately. Look at the changes in working practices since Covid. It is possible to do things differently. Things don't have to be so predictable. And it's not only a numbers driven decision, or shouldn't be. As a society we have to construct policies which uphold our values and way of life, not bend to policies which have no human element.
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Nifty
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Post by Nifty on Mar 18, 2023 8:58:36 GMT 1
and tugging their forelock…… That was made illegal in public in 1995  Yes, but no but, yes. Tugging another man’s forelock was legalised about ‘69 or ‘70.Not in public though. Anyway, what do ‘ Experts’ know about it that I don’t? AFAIC WASPIS need a good spraying. |
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Post by pcpa on Mar 18, 2023 19:16:44 GMT 1
I'm not an economist, nor even very numerate, so I listened to a Prof from Sciences Po in Paris the other day. He is an expert in this area. He said that there were 3 options to cover the current pensions deficit, only 1 of which involved raising the age. My view is that there is no reason why things should be done in the 'expected' way. We should think more innovately. Look at the changes in working practices since Covid. It is possible to do things differently. Things don't have to be so predictable. And it's not only a numbers driven decision, or shouldn't be. As a society we have to construct policies which uphold our values and way of life, not bend to policies which have no human element. Would you care to share what your solution would be, or even the 2 supposed alternative options of the supposed Professeur?
Did they sound plausible to you?
What on earth does the underlined text mean, could you expand on how how the demographic crisis that has been ignored for over 40 years by every government could be resolved in an innovative unpredictable manner not using numbers which I can only deduce means no financial figures?
Dont worry about explaining the last sentence, it's just too far out there to be of relevance.
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Post by pcpa on Mar 18, 2023 19:25:06 GMT 1
I see there has been some comparison with the pension changes in the UK but at least people had years of notice, here the quite radical reforms (for France anyway) start this year. I think there was a lot more notice than that, I only started following French politics when my French got to a good enough level, pretty much from the election of Sarkozy, the demographic crisis was spoken of then but people had been so used to Presidents talking the talk but never walking the walk, he actually walked the walk to a great degree and it was his downfall as the spoilt children could not cope with it. Macrons government have always said that they would reform the state pension within his quincannat, it didn't happen the first time which was a mistake as then it would have passed through without resorting to Article 49.3 I think there has been plenty of notice, just a disbelief through a sense of entitlement. |
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exile
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Post by exile on Mar 18, 2023 19:57:07 GMT 1
I'm not an economist, nor even very numerate, so I listened to a Prof from Sciences Po in Paris the other day. He is an expert in this area. He said that there were 3 options to cover the current pensions deficit, only 1 of which involved raising the age. My view is that there is no reason why things should be done in the 'expected' way. We should think more innovately. Look at the changes in working practices since Covid. It is possible to do things differently. Things don't have to be so predictable. And it's not only a numbers driven decision, or shouldn't be. As a society we have to construct policies which uphold our values and way of life, not bend to policies which have no human element. The human element of raising the pension age is ensuring that our children and grandchildren are not left saddled with a debt they cannot possibly pay even with a 50 hour working week. I too would like to understand the alternatives from the prof. Please share. |
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Post by jackie on Mar 18, 2023 22:14:27 GMT 1
Typical light the touch paper and withdraw post from joseph
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Post by pcpa on Mar 18, 2023 22:24:03 GMT 1
It keeps the forum active and its a subject worthy of discussion given the difficulties every one is facing from the actions of the protestors.
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Post by glazedallover on Mar 18, 2023 23:41:58 GMT 1
If it was that worthy of discussion , why did it take a UK based troll to start it ?
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exile
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Post by exile on Mar 19, 2023 0:24:50 GMT 1
Perhaps because it has not had any major effect on us as yet.
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Nifty
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Post by Nifty on Mar 19, 2023 4:02:06 GMT 1
I see there has been some comparison with the pension changes in the UK but at least people had years of notice, here the quite radical reforms (for France anyway) start this year. I think there was a lot more notice than that, I only started following French politics when my French got to a good enough level, pretty much from the election of Sarkozy, the demographic crisis was spoken of then but people had been so used to Presidents talking the talk but never walking the walk, he actually walked the walk to a great degree and it was his downfall as the spoilt children could not cope with it. Macrons government have always said that they would reform the state pension within his quincannat, it didn't happen the first time which was a mistake as then it would have passed through without resorting to Article 49.3 I think there has been plenty of notice, just a disbelief through a sense of entitlement. A bit like the royal family perhaps? |
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mangetout
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Post by mangetout on Mar 19, 2023 7:46:42 GMT 1
Sorry I haven't replied to the questions posed about my post. I've got visitors and it wasn't easy to find the time. Basically the answer to the problem, which by the way is reported as not being permanent but which would start to reverse in the 2030s, is either increase cotisations or increase salaries to increase cotisations. As for the human element which pcpa says isn't even worth thinking about. Have you never considered starting a thought process with what you want to achieve and looking for a solution?
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