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Post by pcpa on Apr 5, 2023 14:32:14 GMT 1
Youv'e got me there Nifty! I will go with Cernunnos's statement.
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Nifty
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Post by Nifty on Apr 5, 2023 15:35:10 GMT 1
personally I be am not objecting to anything to do with this.
It is all very well stating facts like our forebears hadn't, and they didn't need tractors or chainsaws to do it. but, I think that was simply because before Fordism the technology did not exist, at least in such proportions. What I think is undeniable is that the numbers have changed at a seemingly exponential rate. I think this has to change. Nobody that I know wants to go back and loose privileges that they have gained, or to alter their consumption, travel, leisure, sporting habits etc. I think rapid change is needed but it is not going to be rapid enough.
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Post by pcpa on Apr 5, 2023 16:29:16 GMT 1
What we need is a correction through something like a Coronavirus epidemic, no hang on.................
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Nifty
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Post by Nifty on Apr 5, 2023 19:04:30 GMT 1
A sufficiently large bolide strike should soon sort matters out.
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Post by cernunnos on Apr 5, 2023 19:42:00 GMT 1
Just running out of water will do the job. Tunisia is already rationing water.
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Post by specsavers2 on Apr 5, 2023 20:46:30 GMT 1
Don’t here of many desalination plants in various locations world wide. Would certainly go some way to help. I do remember a British aircraft carrier being used on a needy location. They were fitted with a desalination plant.
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Post by houpla on Apr 5, 2023 21:54:45 GMT 1
Objecting to him harvesting/exploiting his crop is like objecting to a farmer cutting grass for hay, harvesting maize or sending fattened up animals to the abbatoir. Man has been harvesting timber since the dawwn of time, none of us would be here now if our forebears hadn't, and they didn't need tractors or chainsaws to do it. What is important is that other trees are replanted or other plantations created if the land is turned to other use, that has been encouraged and supported by grants for decades. That rather depends on the trees. The turnover period for poplar is 15 years, so it's a 'renewable' resource/crop. An ancient oak or chestnut forest isn't going to be replaced in one lifetime. According to the ecolos, forest has a positive effect on carbon emissions, food/feed crops have a negative one, so although it's not quite the slash'n' burn of South America, there's a delicate balance at play in Western Europe too.
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Post by houpla on Apr 5, 2023 21:57:33 GMT 1
personally I be am not objecting to anything to do with this. It is all very well stating facts like our forebears hadn't, and they didn't need tractors or chainsaws to do it. but, I think that was simply because before Fordism the technology did not exist, at least in such proportions. What I think is undeniable is that the numbers have changed at a seemingly exponential rate. I think this has to change. Nobody that I know wants to go back and loose privileges that they have gained, or to alter their consumption, travel, leisure, sporting habits etc. I think rapid change is needed but it is not going to be rapid enough. Us little people are a drop in the ocean. When Western big business and the accelerated growth in Asia pull in the reins, then there might be some impact.
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Nifty
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Post by Nifty on Apr 5, 2023 22:28:34 GMT 1
Just running out of water will do the job. Tunisia is already rationing water. I think that is much more likely, but, with this stuff, one never really knows. As Michael Fish knew.
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Post by cernunnos on Apr 6, 2023 7:26:32 GMT 1
personally I be am not objecting to anything to do with this. It is all very well stating facts like our forebears hadn't, and they didn't need tractors or chainsaws to do it. but, I think that was simply because before Fordism the technology did not exist, at least in such proportions. What I think is undeniable is that the numbers have changed at a seemingly exponential rate. I think this has to change. Nobody that I know wants to go back and loose privileges that they have gained, or to alter their consumption, travel, leisure, sporting habits etc. I think rapid change is needed but it is not going to be rapid enough. Us little people are a drop in the ocean. When Western big business and the accelerated growth in Asia pull in the reins, then there might be some impact. I agree, but many people just don't see , or don't want to see the problem , and laugh at those that point it out. Knowledge is a good start. If you see yourself as " us little people" then you are denying history . There were thousands of protestors at Sainte Soline , all so called "Ecolos" with 3200 gendarmes , so it was seen as important.
The change will be very rapid when the water is gone.
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Post by pcpa on Apr 7, 2023 11:56:20 GMT 1
Where will it have gone to?
AFAIK its a resource that can never be depleted, like energy it cannot be destroyed, you can only change its form. I know I have misquoted Einstein there but I wanted to avoid saying it cannot be created.
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Post by cernunnos on Apr 7, 2023 13:44:36 GMT 1
Where will it have gone to? AFAIK its a resource that can never be depleted, like energy it cannot be destroyed, you can only change its form. I know I have misquoted Einstein there but I wanted to avoid saying it cannot be created. If you follow the world news , then you will know where the water has gone. I agree that water is always present in one form or another on our planet, but it can be depleted in one area , to appear in vast amounts in another.
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Post by pcpa on Apr 7, 2023 17:53:22 GMT 1
I don't as much as I would like no longer having a TV so I don't know where it has gone hence my question which was a serious one.
I think I understand about desertification etc and that in areas that revert to desert whether by mans actions or nature that the water is still there but in deep aquifers & no longer in the oasis and wadis.
Is Frances water reserve being depleted and ending up falling as extra rain in other countries as a result of bassin de retentions being created that are I'm guessing de minimis in volume compared to the existing reservoirs for potable water? Maybe someone can correct me regarding the volumes concerned.
And does the irrigation water not return in the same volume to the same landmass as rainfall? If not and these bassins are going to create an ecological disaster why did that not happen with the reservoirs? Or maybe it did?
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Post by cernunnos on Apr 7, 2023 19:22:13 GMT 1
climate change is slowly ( but accelerating ) moving the goal posts. Some folk won't or can't change, so try to keep the same production methods and habits going by using more and more environmentally unfriendly methods. Pumping up water from aquifers that are already depleted just to produce a crop that is not needed is not a solution. If Europe was tropical and covered in rainforest there would not be a problem , but it is not, therefore evaporating water does not return as rainfall. There was no rain in France for 32 consecutive days in 2022, that has never happened before. 2/3 of potable water in France comes from underground aquifers. So there WILL be a water problem in the very near future. It is one of the results of climate change that, I think, is too far advanced to be changed, so many people will die, which solves the problem. The circle is full.
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Post by houpla on Apr 7, 2023 20:20:05 GMT 1
Why will 'many people' die? More than die already around the time of the fêtes because there are no doctors or urgentistes working over the holiday period?
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