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Post by pcpa on Sept 5, 2021 22:20:48 GMT 1
It's actually a chicken & egg situation, if you are not imposable then you are not obliged to make a déclaration, in the absence of said déclaration or information from other sources les impôts cannot calculate that someone is imposable and hence oblige them to make a déclaration.
Someone having been advised by a professional that they are not imposable in France can hide behind that and not incriminate themselves. It's one thing to do this unknown to les impôts, altogether another thing once they start requesting.
Unless we are talking millions then for most people it is advantageous to be taxed in France.
Toute personne majeure qui a perçu des revenus imposables en 2020 doit les déclarer au fisc en 2021.
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Post by Dominic Best on Sept 5, 2021 22:23:44 GMT 1
This is now Grump. DB - what rubbish. But it’s not rubbish, it’s just pointing out what you’re refusing to acknowledge. As I said your posting dangerous false information.
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Post by Dominic Best on Sept 5, 2021 22:27:40 GMT 1
Your tax return not only takes income tax into account but other things including any income liable to to social charges, your television licence and your bank accounts.
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exile
Member
Massif Central
Posts: 2,680
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Post by exile on Sept 5, 2021 22:34:18 GMT 1
It's actually a chicken & egg situation, if you are not imposable then you are not obliged to make a déclaration, in the absence of said déclaration or information from other sources les impôts cannot calculate that someone is imposable and hence oblige them to make a déclaration.
Someone having been advised by a professional that they are not imposable in France can hide behind that and not incriminate themselves. It's one thing to do this unknown to les impôts, altogether another thing once they start requesting.
Unless we are talking millions then for most people it is advantageous to be taxed in France.
Toute personne majeure qui a perçu des revenus imposables en 2020 doit les déclarer au fisc en 2021.
The OP has made it clear that their tax situation has been cleared by the fiscs international. Please let's stop attacking Grumpish. I don't like it. You clearly don't like it. It is how the rules are written. Grow up and live with it.
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exile
Member
Massif Central
Posts: 2,680
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Post by exile on Sept 5, 2021 23:14:12 GMT 1
Just to expand on my dislike.
Having an S1 that pays in part for your healthcare, ignores the cost of having a system that allows you to avail yourself of that healthcare.
Having a relation in the UK that you wish to support through UK tax, ignores all the benefits you have in France through a police system, street lighting, a road and rail infrastructure, an education system that keeps kids off the streets instead of breaking into your outhouses, let alone national security, etc..
But there are those who are happy that the rest of us should pay for that.
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Post by pcpa on Sept 5, 2021 23:15:19 GMT 1
I wasn't attacking him and I can't see why you think I clearly dont like it, I did it myself for many years including when I was asked to submit a déclaration. That it actually cost me quite a lot in lost benefits I was unaware of which is poetic justice really.
If you look at the impôts text that I quoted and the part in bold you should see that I was actually defending Grumpyish's stance.
Did you perhaps quote the wrong person?
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Post by tim17 on Sept 6, 2021 5:50:53 GMT 1
I've no doubt that Mr and Mrs G's tax residency status is correct based on international tax law etc, I am curious though what they put on their CdS applications as to when their 'physical' residency in France started and what residency card they have obtained.
Apologies in advance if this has already been stated but I having waded through all the posts I can't find the answer.
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Post by mangetout on Sept 6, 2021 7:59:59 GMT 1
We actually need to be in the UK for more than 90 days each year because Grumpyish's brother is dying and my parents are very elderly and my mother is seriously ill. But you all go and knock yourselves out with your conspiracy theories.... I now know why I detest anglophone forums full of Brit expats, all congratulating each other on how well they are integrated into French life...but Mr Grumpyish seems to like it so each to their own... Mrs Grumpyish Contributing to the society that you live in by paying your fair share of tax should not be sneered at. Some people have principles. You'd be better suited to living in England.
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Post by Dominic Best on Sept 6, 2021 8:32:23 GMT 1
It's actually a chicken & egg situation, if you are not imposable then you are not obliged to make a déclaration, in the absence of said déclaration or information from other sources les impôts cannot calculate that someone is imposable and hence oblige them to make a déclaration.
Someone having been advised by a professional that they are not imposable in France can hide behind that and not incriminate themselves. It's one thing to do this unknown to les impôts, altogether another thing once they start requesting.
Unless we are talking millions then for most people it is advantageous to be taxed in France.
Toute personne majeure qui a perçu des revenus imposables en 2020 doit les déclarer au fisc en 2021.
The OP has made it clear that their tax situation has been cleared by the fiscs international. Please let's stop attacking Grumpish. I don't like it. You clearly don't like it. It is how the rules are written. Grow up and live with it. It’s not a case of growing up it’s a case of other people reading what they want to hear, that they can live in France without having to get involved with the tax system. That could cause huge amounts of grief down the line. I’m not saying that they have to pay any tax in France, I’m not saying that they cannot remain tax resident in the U.K., I’m pointing out that residents, apart from a few who do not meet thresholds, have to complete a French tax return declaring their Worldwide income. Please stop the unnecessary insults.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2021 9:19:06 GMT 1
These posts are becoming totally unacceptable, even more so with the suggestions of unethical conduct on our part or loopholes in straightforward legislation.
Our situation is as it is which makes us UK tax resident. We have proven that we will not be a burden on France and so have a CDS. We comply with the residency permit requirements. We deal with the tax authority international office rather than filling in a local tax form.
We pay our fair share of tax where it is due.
I go back to the UK as and when I chose. How dare you suggest where we should live.
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Post by mangetout on Sept 6, 2021 9:33:06 GMT 1
Anyone who lives in a country and does not pay tax in that country is a burden on that country. End of.
Nb. Except of course those who receive government related pensions who are unable to pay tax outside of the UK.
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FFS
Member
As usual, in front of my laptop when I'm here
Posts: 2,797
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Post by FFS on Sept 6, 2021 9:55:00 GMT 1
Mrs Grumpyish here Firstly I have no idea what qualifications Mrs Hal has but I was a senior tax manager with KPMG and then with Deloitte. I was also head of tax for a very well known UK bank. I have also worked as interim European and global head of tax for well known household globals dealing with expat tax in 30 jurisdictions. I have also worked with HMRC in the drafting of tax legislation and have been on a number of national and international tax consultancy forum..... I wonder whether some of the commentators on here would also want to direct their surgeon on how he should be carrying out their cardiac bypass surgery. In the words of Abraham Lincoln: "Better to remain silent......." One big difference between a surgeon who carries out cardiac bypass surgery and someone experienced in taxation matters is that the former has had at least 10 years of training and many years of practice in performing a procedure in which there are no shortcuts and no other interpretations of how the procedure should be carried out; the latter can use the vagueness of laws and legislation in order to arrive at an outcome that is more beneficial for some than for others.
That is why some people use accountants to achieve the best tax situation possible for them; it's well known and it's not illegal (unless there are falsifications), but it doesn't please those who aren't able to avail themselves of an accountant's services.
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Post by lapourtaider on Sept 6, 2021 10:11:51 GMT 1
These posts are becoming totally unacceptable, even more so with the suggestions of unethical conduct on our part or loopholes in straightforward legislation. I totally agree. I imagine you wish you hadn't put that one line in your post that started all this.
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Post by Dominic Best on Sept 6, 2021 10:26:41 GMT 1
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FFS
Member
As usual, in front of my laptop when I'm here
Posts: 2,797
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Post by FFS on Sept 6, 2021 10:30:58 GMT 1
I've no doubt that Mr and Mrs G's tax residency status is correct based on international tax law etc, I am curious though what they put on their CdS applications as to when their 'physical' residency in France started and what residency card they have obtained. Apologies in advance if this has already been stated but I having waded through all the posts I can't find the answer. I have just looked through the pdf regarding supporting documentation for the TdS WARP application ( here) - applications can still be made until 30 September, by the way - and for those here permanently less than 5 years, a copy of a tax return is not necessarily required.
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