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Post by plog on Sept 16, 2021 12:08:29 GMT 1
Do they even have "vaccine passports"? No they don’t and no they won’t, but personally it still came a bit of a minor shock to go to a hotel in France on Thursday and have to produce proof of vaccination on check in/at restaurant and wear a mask unless sat at a table, and then, less than twenty four hours later, be able to waltz into a busy restaurant in London with zero checks and absolutely no mask wearing requirement. It’ll genuinely be interesting to see how case numbers/hospitalizations either side of the channel evolve over the next few months. (apologies for the nested quotes..) Edit: Fixed the nested quotes problem, plog - FFS
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ibis
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Post by ibis on Sept 16, 2021 12:18:06 GMT 1
Do they even have "vaccine passports"? People vaccinated in the UK can get one. The UK government choses not to mandate them. This compares to the Macron approach where it was mandated, pretty much as an incentive to get vaccinated. I feel safer in France. We have them here in Spain also but they are just a piece of paper or as an app to spy on you - not needed anywhere as far as I can tell
An incentive? Doesn't France go by "Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité"? So civil rights; ie. liberté has been thrown out the door because a few people have died - less than the flu or cancer in a normal year
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Post by pcpa on Sept 16, 2021 12:21:09 GMT 1
I agree with Macrons approach and think it is the better one but there is a big difference in the populations and what makes them tick.
As a consequence I think the non vaccinated are safer in France than England, their rights and their safety is protected, as for feeling safer, I have been vaccinated and feel as safe as I could be wherever I am regardless of mask wearing or the level of vaccination in whatever country.
I think France by creating obstacles to the liberty of the non vaccinated will eventually achieve a significantly higher percentage of the population vaccinated than the UK or other countrys, I have always felt that Macron understood the French protest mentality, the desire to be seen to protest vigorously hiding the underlying need to conform.
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ibis
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Post by ibis on Sept 16, 2021 12:24:07 GMT 1
It’ll genuinely be interesting to see how case numbers/hospitalizations either side of the channel evolve over the next few months. You have to wonder why the numbers in the UK were higher this summer ( hospital admissions, infections, deaths) than when the UK were wearing masks and most were not vaccinated ( last summer)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2021 12:28:18 GMT 1
People vaccinated in the UK can get one. The UK government choses not to mandate them. This compares to the Macron approach where it was mandated, pretty much as an incentive to get vaccinated. I feel safer in France. We have them here in Spain also but they are just a piece of paper or as an app to spy on you - not needed anywhere as far as I can tell
An incentive? Doesn't France go by "Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité"? So civil rights; ie. liberté has been thrown out the door because a few people have died - less than the flu or cancer in a normal year
An extension of your logic is that people should not be thrown into prison in France as their liberty would be lost . Civil rights go both ways so as to protect others. I gather that your views are very fixed and somewhat contrary to expert opinion. A bit as to why Brexit happened.
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Post by annabellespapa on Sept 16, 2021 12:50:55 GMT 1
I have been out shopping in the UK this morning, at a supermarket they was a sign asking if you wouldn't mind wearing a mask, I wore mine but inside less 10% were wearing them and only saw one member of staff wearing one. Went to a large DIY store no sign and I was only 1 of 2 people wearing a mask inside.
I was due to travel on Brittany Ferries today but had to postpone for a few days, I checked their policy yesterday and they said that because it is a French flag carrying vessel, masks must be wore in all public areas except when sitting down whilst eating and drinking.
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Post by lapourtaider on Sept 16, 2021 15:45:41 GMT 1
An incentive? Doesn't France go by "Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité"? So civil rights; ie. liberté has been thrown out the door because a few people have died - less than the flu or cancer in a normal year
Like a lot of people, you seem to focus on the liberté aspect, but ignore the fraternité one.
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exile
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Post by exile on Sept 16, 2021 16:29:17 GMT 1
People vaccinated in the UK can get one. The UK government choses not to mandate them. This compares to the Macron approach where it was mandated, pretty much as an incentive to get vaccinated. I feel safer in France. We have them here in Spain also but they are just a piece of paper or as an app to spy on you - not needed anywhere as far as I can tell
An incentive? Doesn't France go by "Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité"? So civil rights; ie. liberté has been thrown out the door because a few people have died - less than the flu or cancer in a normal year
Cancer - yes - but only because measures such as masks have been introduced, I would suggest. Also remember that cancer is not one disease but a collection of diseases, so for a fair comparison you should take all virus induced deaths. Flu - no way - complete nonsense. Show me any flu epidemic post 1919 where annual deaths have been over 80,000.
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FFS
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Post by FFS on Sept 16, 2021 16:42:01 GMT 1
[The pass sanitaire a]n incentive? Doesn't France go by "Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité"? So civil rights; ie. liberté has been thrown out the door because a few people have died - less than the flu or cancer in a normal year
Like a lot of people, you seem to focus on the liberté aspect, but ignore the fraternité one. Just to add to what lapourtaider says: liberté hasn't been thrown out of the door, those choosing not to be vaccinated are free to make that choice, just as those who have a pass were free to make their choice to be vaccinated. Vaccination is not obligatory for the average man or woman in the street (though it now is for certain health frontline positions, which I think is a good thing).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2021 17:16:24 GMT 1
Show me anti-flu vaccine paranoia.
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ibis
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Post by ibis on Sept 16, 2021 17:17:04 GMT 1
An incentive? Doesn't France go by "Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité"? So civil rights; ie. liberté has been thrown out the door because a few people have died - less than the flu or cancer in a normal year
Like a lot of people, you seem to focus on the liberté aspect, but ignore the fraternité one. I am not a very good socialist...
If you need money or a job - McDonald's is always hiring..
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2021 17:54:50 GMT 1
Like a lot of people, you seem to focus on the liberté aspect, but ignore the fraternité one. I am not a very good socialist...
If you need money or a job - McDonald's is always hiring..
I would say that you are not a very good person. That comment is beyond contempt.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2021 17:58:35 GMT 1
Like a lot of people, you seem to focus on the liberté aspect, but ignore the fraternité one. Just to add to what lapourtaider says: liberté hasn't been thrown out of the door, those choosing not to be vaccinated are free to make that choice, just as those who have a pass were free to make their choice to be vaccinated. Vaccination is not obligatory for the average man or woman in the street (though it now is for certain health frontline positions, which I think is a good thing). Agreed, but for those wishing to go clubbing etc its a big incentive - it shows where priorities lie for some people.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2021 18:07:38 GMT 1
I am not a very good socialist...
If you need money or a job - McDonald's is always hiring..
I would say that you are not a very good person. That comment is beyond contempt. DFTT There a few on here are either completely stupid, on a wind up or both
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FFS
Member
As usual, in front of my laptop when I'm here
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Post by FFS on Sept 16, 2021 20:02:45 GMT 1
For those wondering; DFTT stands for Don't Feed The Troll. I don't think ibis is a troll, but nor do I think ibis is living the same life as the rest of us down in sunny Spain.
The quote below... is not worlds apart from Norman Tebbit's "Get on your bike...", and Emmanuel Macron's "Je traverse la rue et je vous trouve un travail" - it's not a comment "beyond contempt", just a comment from a not very good socialist's point of view
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