Veem
Member
Posts: 11,974
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Post by Veem on Oct 1, 2021 16:22:53 GMT 1
When I was studying French at school eons ago, one of the negative forms we had to learn was 'ne .........guère'. For some reason I've never forgotten it. I used to ride out a lot with a French friend and whenever I used 'ne ..........guère' she would infer that it was very 'posh', classical French and 'scarcely' (!) used now, the French preferring just ne ..... pas. Does anyone else use it? I don't think I've heard it spoken by a French person in the 17 years we've lived here.  |
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suein56
Member
Southern Morbihan 56 Brittany
Posts: 7,467
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Post by suein56 on Oct 1, 2021 16:31:37 GMT 1
Thinking about it I have only heard two French women use it here, of whom one was very erudite and well-educated, the other had worked in the US as a simultaneous translator at UNICEF headquarters in New York. Both are now in their 80s so the idea usage of it is a tad dated might hold water  . Word Reference indicates its use as 'formal'. |
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Post by pcpa on Oct 1, 2021 16:37:00 GMT 1
I thought that it meant "hardly" as that is how I have read it and understood it, so I say it in that context without realising that perhaps I am wrong or sounding posh.
Oops, I am getting confused with n'a guère  |
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dilly
Member
near Limoges, Haute Vienne
Posts: 105
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Post by dilly on Oct 1, 2021 16:38:14 GMT 1
No, I never use it and don't ever hear it. As you say, it's very formal and only seen in literature these days. For:
Ça ne me touche guère. I say: Ça ne me touche pas beaucoup. or Ça me touche à peine.
edit: Just read pcpa's post.
"ne ... guère" = scarcely, hardly.
naguère (one word) also formal = autrefois = a long time ago
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FFS
Member
As usual, in front of my laptop when I'm here
Posts: 2,797
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Post by FFS on Oct 1, 2021 16:40:13 GMT 1
Vieillot, according to my wife, and more used in written French than spoken.
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Veem
Member
Posts: 11,974
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Post by Veem on Oct 1, 2021 16:50:53 GMT 1
Perhaps it's my love of nuance which leads me to remember it and use it. To me, in English, 'hardly' and 'not much' don't have the same subtle nuance.
So probably it's not just English that is being damped down.
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Post by pcpa on Oct 1, 2021 18:27:59 GMT 1
Thanks for that Dilly, I certainly had confused myself!
Veem, how would you describe the nuance between à peine and ne guère ?
My instinct tells me to use à peine when something was terminated prematurely or something happened when something else had barely started but I could not tell you why I feel that way, thats why I am asking as I must continually challenge my instincts and assumptions.
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Post by pcpa on Oct 1, 2021 18:32:10 GMT 1
Ne............ guère is like the ne...........que conjunction if that is the right term, translates (I believe) as "only", it always throws me in literature because the que can appear a couple of lines after the verb in verbose texts by which time I have already read it as a negation 
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FFS
Member
As usual, in front of my laptop when I'm here
Posts: 2,797
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Post by FFS on Oct 1, 2021 19:47:36 GMT 1
Ne............ guère is like the ne...........que conjunction if that is the right term, translates (I believe) as "only", it always throws me in literature because the que can appear a couple of lines after the verb in verbose texts by which time I have already read it as a negation No, ne...guère is not like ne...que.
See the Collins online dictionary references for ne...guère and ne...que. I know what you mean about verbose texts and the late appearance of 'que' after 'ne'. |
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Post by pcpa on Oct 1, 2021 20:07:35 GMT 1
Perhaps I didn't explain, I meant ne guère is like ne que because in both the ne and guère/que are seperated by the conjugated verb although I see from your example that ne guère can also be used alone.
Or have I misunderstood? If so please explain how you say they are different, we may probably both be correct.
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