Nifty
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Post by Nifty on Jan 21, 2022 11:53:18 GMT 1
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exile
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Post by exile on Jan 21, 2022 11:59:42 GMT 1
Given that very many of the clinic and hospitals in France are privately owned and run, I suspect it is common.
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Post by houpla on Jan 21, 2022 13:37:11 GMT 1
Perhaps the health services in both countries are far more 'big business' than is commonly supposed. It is far more obvious here, though, where the customer sees the true cost of their treatment and is heavily involved in the financial transaction side of things. Unless things have changed dramatically in UK, you paid your NI, went to whoever whenever, you were treated, eventually, and money didn't come into it. I've had trouble getting my head around a system where the first question asked by the GP or consultant is 'How are you going to pay?' In the case of my former MT, it was just about the only question in which he was interested. Same with medicaments. The overprescribing is a result of the student MTs being in the pocket of one of the big pharma companies before they even qualify! Sad, really, isn't it? The extent to which everything to do with humans revolves around money  |
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Post by beejay on Jan 21, 2022 13:44:13 GMT 1
Perhaps the health services in both countries are far more 'big business' than is commonly supposed. It is far more obvious here, though, where the customer sees the true cost of their treatment and is heavily involved in the financial transaction side of things. Unless things have changed dramatically in UK, you paid your NI, went to whoever whenever, you were treated, eventually, and money didn't come into it. I've had trouble getting my head around a system where the first question asked by the GP or consultant is 'How are you going to pay?' In the case of my former MT, it was just about the only question in which he was interested. Same with medicaments. The overprescribing is a result of the student MTs being in the pocket of one of the big pharma companies before they even qualify! Sad, really, isn't it? The extent to which everything to do with humans revolves around money 
Been like that since bartering disappeared.  |
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Post by beejay on Jan 21, 2022 13:51:52 GMT 1
The NHS farms out work to consultants that they also employee on a part-time basis.
My wife has had, on separate occasions, two orthopaedic operations at a BUPA clinic carried out by the consultant she originally saw at an NHS hospital. Nice guy, he invited us to his house when it was "Open Gardens Day" after he found my wife was a keen gardener.
Others we know have had similar treatment. (not the gardens though!)
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Post by houpla on Jan 21, 2022 14:25:22 GMT 1
Perhaps the health services in both countries are far more 'big business' than is commonly supposed. It is far more obvious here, though, where the customer sees the true cost of their treatment and is heavily involved in the financial transaction side of things. Unless things have changed dramatically in UK, you paid your NI, went to whoever whenever, you were treated, eventually, and money didn't come into it. I've had trouble getting my head around a system where the first question asked by the GP or consultant is 'How are you going to pay?' In the case of my former MT, it was just about the only question in which he was interested. Same with medicaments. The overprescribing is a result of the student MTs being in the pocket of one of the big pharma companies before they even qualify! Sad, really, isn't it? The extent to which everything to do with humans revolves around money
Been like that since bartering disappeared.  Yes and no, beejay. Remember vocation? That thing that doctors, nurses and teachers used to have? Nobody expects them to work long hours or do a filthy job for peanuts, but the sense of vocation has long gone in both countries. |
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Post by mangetout on Jan 21, 2022 14:33:18 GMT 1
Perhaps the health services in both countries are far more 'big business' than is commonly supposed. It is far more obvious here, though, where the customer sees the true cost of their treatment and is heavily involved in the financial transaction side of things. Unless things have changed dramatically in UK, you paid your NI, went to whoever whenever, you were treated, eventually, and money didn't come into it. I've had trouble getting my head around a system where the first question asked by the GP or consultant is 'How are you going to pay?' In the case of my former MT, it was just about the only question in which he was interested. Same with medicaments. The overprescribing is a result of the student MTs being in the pocket of one of the big pharma companies before they even qualify! Sad, really, isn't it? The extent to which everything to do with humans revolves around money Sorry, I liked this by accident. I meant to touch the quote sign. Anyway, in the 20 odd years I've been using the French health service I have never been asked how I'm going to pay. I have used the fact that we don't have a mutuelle to persuade a surgeon to lower his fees however. So quite the opposite experience. |
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Post by ForumUser2 on Jan 21, 2022 14:43:17 GMT 1
Been like that since bartering disappeared. Yes and no, beejay. Remember vocation? That thing that doctors, nurses and teachers used to have? Nobody expects them to work long hours or do a filthy job for peanuts, but the sense of vocation has long gone in both countries. That last comment is utter tosh. |
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Post by mangetout on Jan 21, 2022 14:56:17 GMT 1
Houpla, I don't know where you encounter your doctors, nurses and teachers. Must be on another planet because all I see is long hours, hard work and dedication. Along with a big dollop of caring. Yes, there is the odd one who's in the wrong job but I think you're way off the mark.
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Post by houpla on Jan 21, 2022 18:04:04 GMT 1
Perhaps the health services in both countries are far more 'big business' than is commonly supposed. It is far more obvious here, though, where the customer sees the true cost of their treatment and is heavily involved in the financial transaction side of things. Unless things have changed dramatically in UK, you paid your NI, went to whoever whenever, you were treated, eventually, and money didn't come into it. I've had trouble getting my head around a system where the first question asked by the GP or consultant is 'How are you going to pay?' In the case of my former MT, it was just about the only question in which he was interested. Same with medicaments. The overprescribing is a result of the student MTs being in the pocket of one of the big pharma companies before they even qualify! Sad, really, isn't it? The extent to which everything to do with humans revolves around money Sorry, I liked this by accident. I meant to touch the quote sign. Anyway, in the 20 odd years I've been using the French health service I have never been asked how I'm going to pay. I have used the fact that we don't have a mutuelle to persuade a surgeon to lower his fees however. So quite the opposite experience. I'm glad that's the case for you, mangetout. I suppose I was generalising, rather, going on the experiences I've had here. |
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FFS
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Post by FFS on Jan 21, 2022 18:12:52 GMT 1
A sense of vocation is often why many go into the medical or educational professions and is what keeps many there, in spite of their treatment at the hands of the State or the users.
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Post by houpla on Jan 21, 2022 20:22:55 GMT 1
Yes and no, beejay. Remember vocation? That thing that doctors, nurses and teachers used to have? Nobody expects them to work long hours or do a filthy job for peanuts, but the sense of vocation has long gone in both countries. That last comment is utter tosh. No it isn't. In my reasonably wide circle of friends, there are quite a few nurses and teachers, and one doctor. OK...not exactly a mori poll  They're all of the same opinion, though, that the medical and teaching professions as they stand today have changed. The career structures have changed. The self-perception of the people employed in those professions has changed. The thing that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt how little vocation counts, at least among MTs, is the medical desertification in rural France. Despite generous government incentives and Maires bending over backwards to provide facilities, young doctors simply don't want to know. We're now in a situation where A&E departments in main hospitals are closing between 20h and 8h during holiday periods, because there are no urgentists. I'm sure there are still individuals in all three professions that do still have a vocation, but I stand by my opinion that there are many, many more that put that quality way down on their priorities after money, career prospects, personal life and status. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2022 20:39:15 GMT 1
That last comment is utter tosh. No it isn't. In my reasonably wide circle of friends, there are quite a few nurses and teachers, and one doctor. OK...not exactly a mori poll  They're all of the same opinion, though, that the medical and teaching professions as they stand today have changed. The career structures have changed. The self-perception of the people employed in those professions has changed. The thing that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt how little vocation counts, at least among MTs, is the medical desertification in rural France. Despite generous government incentives and Maires bending over backwards to provide facilities, young doctors simply don't want to know. We're now in a situation where A&E departments in main hospitals are closing between 20h and 8h during holiday periods, because there are no urgentists. I'm sure there are still individuals in all three professions that do still have a vocation, but I stand by my opinion that there are many, many more that put that quality way down on their priorities after money, career prospects, personal life and status. Houpla is at least partly correct. There are many for whom it is a vocation but there are also those for whom it's just a job. It's the same in all walks of life. It's just more marked in a caring profession and when you or someone close is on the wrong end of it, you notice. |
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Post by ForumUser2 on Jan 21, 2022 21:52:02 GMT 1
That last comment is utter tosh. No it isn't. In my reasonably wide circle of friends, there are quite a few nurses and teachers, and one doctor. OK...not exactly a mori poll They're all of the same opinion, though, that the medical and teaching professions as they stand today have changed. The career structures have changed. The self-perception of the people employed in those professions has changed. The thing that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt how little vocation counts, at least among MTs, is the medical desertification in rural France. Despite generous government incentives and Maires bending over backwards to provide facilities, young doctors simply don't want to know. We're now in a situation where A&E departments in main hospitals are closing between 20h and 8h during holiday periods, because there are no urgentists. I'm sure there are still individuals in all three professions that do still have a vocation, but I stand by my opinion that there are many, many more that put that quality way down on their priorities after money, career prospects, personal life and status. Well, that's a comprehensive study to back up your earlier assertion. For myself I can merely offer a career in medicine so only meeting many hundreds of health professionals the majority of whom continued to undertake their vocation in spite of encountering the sort of total bollocks above, But I'm retired now and have no skin in the game so why I've even bothered to reply to someone whose depth of understanding and experience clearly exceeds mine, I've no idea. |
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Post by ForumUser2 on Jan 21, 2022 22:08:54 GMT 1
No it isn't. In my reasonably wide circle of friends, there are quite a few nurses and teachers, and one doctor. OK...not exactly a mori poll They're all of the same opinion, though, that the medical and teaching professions as they stand today have changed. The career structures have changed. The self-perception of the people employed in those professions has changed. The thing that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt how little vocation counts, at least among MTs, is the medical desertification in rural France. Despite generous government incentives and Maires bending over backwards to provide facilities, young doctors simply don't want to know. We're now in a situation where A&E departments in main hospitals are closing between 20h and 8h during holiday periods, because there are no urgentists. I'm sure there are still individuals in all three professions that do still have a vocation, but I stand by my opinion that there are many, many more that put that quality way down on their priorities after money, career prospects, personal life and status. Houpla is at least partly correct. There are many for whom it is a vocation but there are also those for whom it's just a job. It's the same in all walks of life. It's just more marked in a caring profession and when you or someone close is on the wrong end of it, you notice. That may be so but the notion that somehow the professions are going to hell in a handcart compared to the good old days when professionals asked for nothing more than the satisfaction of a job well done is just nonsense. There will always be individuals in all jobs/professions who care for nobody other than themselves and what they can get out of it - there's nothing novel about that. There's also nothing inherently wrong with a Dr, nurse, teacher wanting to work where they choose and for appropriate remuneration. And those that fail to meet professional standards - which, in medicine, are way higher than when I began 40 years ago - don't last long. That's not just in the UK. So, yes, there will always be bad apples but to extrapolate their failings to the whole of a profession is petty-minded and plain wrong. |
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They're all of the same opinion, though, that the medical and teaching professions as they stand today have changed. The career structures have changed. The self-perception of the people employed in those professions has changed. The thing that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt how little vocation counts, at least among MTs, is the medical desertification in rural France. Despite generous government incentives and Maires bending over backwards to provide facilities, young doctors simply don't want to know. We're now in a situation where A&E departments in main hospitals are closing between 20h and 8h during holiday periods, because there are no urgentists.
They're all of the same opinion, though, that the medical and teaching professions as they stand today have changed. The career structures have changed. The self-perception of the people employed in those professions has changed. The thing that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt how little vocation counts, at least among MTs, is the medical desertification in rural France. Despite generous government incentives and Maires bending over backwards to provide facilities, young doctors simply don't want to know. We're now in a situation where A&E departments in main hospitals are closing between 20h and 8h during holiday periods, because there are no urgentists.