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Post by ForumUser2 on Jan 30, 2022 14:10:15 GMT 1
50 years ago today the British establishment randomly killed 14 of its citizens (13 on the day, one died of injuries later). The Saville enquiry exonerated each victim from charges of being armed. John Kelly runs the Museum of Free Derry; his brother, Michael, 17, was shot dead at the rubble barricade. I spent a morning with John a few years ago and met some of the people who were there including a couple of blokes who were prompted by Bloody Sunday to join the IRA. Anyone who feels that the victims somehow deserved it or who think the survivors and relatives should move on need to bear in mind that these were 14 people on a peaceful demo on a British street by aimed shots from high muzzle velocity weapons. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1972) |
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Post by mangetout on Jan 30, 2022 15:21:58 GMT 1
Sadly the average Brit seems to not care. They see the Irish as an irritant, trouble makers, people with little to moan about. A little knowledge of the history might improve attitudes, might. But sadly history lessons don't cover things that we should be ashamed of. Just those things which give rise to 'rule brittania'. It was a terrible day and one which I remember well. Any government which shoots dead its unarmed citizens should be brought to justice. But they won't be.
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Post by Jo in France on Jan 30, 2022 17:17:11 GMT 1
As France should be for the killing of all those Algerians in 1961. And they did THAT in Paris and threw the bodies in the Seine.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2022 17:17:30 GMT 1
I read this morning the peace walls that seperated the two communities before the peace agreement are still there but higher now.
I think things have changed not sure they would get away with that now.
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FFS
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Post by FFS on Jan 30, 2022 17:56:00 GMT 1
The Wiki article was a long but revealing read, leaving me in no doubt that the blame lay on the British side.
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Post by ForumUser2 on Jan 30, 2022 18:08:46 GMT 1
For anyone who wants to get a good feel for the events, Paul Greengrass made the film Bloody Sunday with James Nesbit as the Unionist MP Ivan Cooper who was way ahead of his time in supporting, indeed being an integral part of, the civil rights movement.
Although the film was made on location in Dublin, the editing is so well done that even people familiar with Derry would be hard pushed to spot the difference. Parts of the movie are almost too visceral and it's not an easy watch.
I might be from the opposite end of the spectrum but even a Shankill lad can see the injustice. Regardless of petty sectarianism absolutely nothing can condone the actions of the Paras on that day.
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Post by traveller on Jan 30, 2022 20:43:38 GMT 1
Is it known if an order to fire was given?
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FFS
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Post by FFS on Jan 30, 2022 20:56:43 GMT 1
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Post by ForumUser2 on Jan 30, 2022 23:21:58 GMT 1
Is it known if an order to fire was given? The ROE allowed for return of fire in the event of being fired upon or to neutralise a mortal threat eg bombs or to protect others from a lethal threat. This was the reason given by the soldiers, that is that they saw the gunman/bomber and aimed at the target. This is not what happened. Several of the victims were shot by aimed fire, others by random rounds. Not one, not a single one, of the victims was shown to be carrying any form of offensive weapon or bomb. Some were shot while running away, one was killed by a second, aimed shot while lying face down having already been shot in the back. Another while waving a white hanky as he went to tend a wounded man. |
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Post by ForumUser2 on Jan 31, 2022 12:12:08 GMT 1
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ibis
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Post by ibis on Jan 31, 2022 12:19:46 GMT 1
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FFS
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Post by FFS on Jan 31, 2022 17:34:32 GMT 1
All ten volumes and the Conclusions? I'm impressed. Where's a hat's off smiley when you need one? |
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Post by ForumUser2 on Jan 31, 2022 18:02:33 GMT 1
All ten volumes and the Conclusions? I'm impressed. Where's a hat's off smiley when you need one? Oh, it takes a while! I started, to be fair, with the conclusions but became increasingly keen to see how 12 years worth of inquiry was unrolled. I reckon I skimmed about 70% of it, right enough. Remember, I had a foot in 3 camps. Sort of. Notionally from a Unionist background, more importantly concerned with simple fairness and equality and finally a crown servant in uniform for many years. That's a lot of white noise going on and I tried really hard to not prejudge anything. I think the Saville Report is a shining example of thoroughness and integrity. |
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