ibis
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Post by ibis on Jul 25, 2021 19:04:56 GMT 1
Over the years I have often read about people using plastic to control weeds, line raised beds. Please stop this. Plastic is made from petroleum which leeches into the soil and into the plants, thus into you.
Some plastics are safe for growing veg so please before using, have a look on the internet to see if your plastic is ok. Bin liners are not....
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exile
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Massif Central
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Post by exile on Jul 25, 2021 20:32:17 GMT 1
1. Petroleum does not leach out of plastics. Yes plastics are mainly made from petroleum, but there is no petroleum in them - just not possible. The oil products go through several different chemical and physical processes before they become the raw material for producing a plastic.
2. Some plastics do contain additives that might leach out but these are not likely to be the plastics you would use in a garden environment.
3. Binbags are polyethylene - one of the most inert plastics you will find and no nasty additives unless you are worried about carbon black aka soot, which gives them their colour. You are more likely to get nasties leaching out of the wood walls of your raised bed than from the plastic.
4. Polycarbonate sheeting from greenhouses and cold frames is lighter, safer and has better insulation properties than glass. Plastic bubble pack is the ideal translucent insulator for greenhouses during the colder months.
5. Despite Gardeners World making a thing about avoiding plastics, that has gradually been quietly dropped as, frankly, just impractical. Plastic pots use less energy to be produced than terracotta ones, weigh less (and so cost less to transport in money and environmental impact) and can be more durable to frost and other environmental attack. Ever seen a multi-cell terracotta planter for your seedlings? No? Me neither. Ever seen a terracotta seed tray? As for pool liners that polybutene liner is a plastic - you could of course get a load of clay and tread that in as an alternative liner but it is much less likely to be successful unless you have very stable subsoils.
So my advice is don't listen to ill-informed scare stories. If you have a real concern about things leaching out of plastics then avoid flexible PVC, which does contain materials that might leach but off hand I cannot think of a single garden item made from this material - except perhaps pool toys.
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Post by Polarengineer on Jul 26, 2021 8:43:29 GMT 1
Once again, Exile comes up with most of the actual facts (where have you learned all this?). I can also confirm this data as I am one who has been responsible for some of the design of many chemical and plastics factories. No, I am not ashamed of that, as it was the general public that made the demand for these materials at the time, My work helped supply what you wanted. You may have had doubts at the time as to whether you should use these products if you had bothered to research how they are made. My last participation in a chemical factory project was to help design a phosgene plant for a German company (the 2nd such plant I have worked on. Phosgene is a WW1 mustard gas). Yes, phosgene is a basic ingredient of, among other materials, the foaming polyurethane plastic used in building to fill gaps between window frames and walls, seal holes around pipes etc. through walls, and many more uses. Your garden uses less of these materials than the house you live in.
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exile
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Post by exile on Jul 26, 2021 9:24:12 GMT 1
Where have I learned all this?
8 years training as a chemist (no not an apothecary, a chemist as in chemistry). 37 years in industry - specifically the chemicals industry, more specifically petrochemicals industry and absolutely to the point in the plastics production industry. Six companies (but never changed my desk at the time of change but did see 6 different company cultures); 3 countries; working with licensees around the world; heavily involved in logistics, packaging, imports and exports.
The rest is down to my own interests in environmental issues, growing your own, etc.
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FFS
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As usual, in front of my laptop when I'm here
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Post by FFS on Jul 26, 2021 20:05:21 GMT 1
Where have I learned all this? 8 years training as a chemist (no not an apothecary, a chemist as in chemistry). 37 years in industry - specifically the chemicals industry, more specifically petrochemicals industry and absolutely to the point in the plastics production industry. Six companies (but never changed my desk at the time of change but did see 6 different company cultures); 3 countries; working with licensees around the world; heavily involved in logistics, packaging, imports and exports. The rest is down to my own interests in environmental issues, growing your own, etc. Well, that qualifies you as more of an expert than the OP in my very humble opinion, and more of an expert in that field than I would guess all the rest of us. |
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Post by Polarengineer on Jul 27, 2021 13:31:19 GMT 1
Well Exile, looks like we could have both been working for the same company. John Brown, but in different countries.
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exile
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Massif Central
Posts: 2,690
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Post by exile on Jul 27, 2021 14:37:35 GMT 1
No. Other side of the fence - in manufacturing rather than plant engineering.
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Post by robertarthur on Jul 28, 2021 14:01:37 GMT 1
Unsafe at any speed and every step: climbing a ladder with your Stihl or Husky chainsaw. |
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FFS
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Post by FFS on Jul 28, 2021 17:10:09 GMT 1
Unsafe at any speed and every step: climbing a ladder with your Stihl or Husky chainsaw. Sometimes one has little choice, but unsafer still if you have the chainsaw running at the time you climb. |
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Aardvark
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Living in soggy 22 and still wondering what's going on.
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Post by Aardvark on Jul 28, 2021 19:50:42 GMT 1
That's a tough call that I will have to face sometime soon. If you climb first and start it after you get there you have to let go of the ladder to leave both hands free to start it. I'm tending to think start it on the ground first and climb with it running. Mine's not too heavy so it might be doable.
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FFS
Member
As usual, in front of my laptop when I'm here
Posts: 2,797
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Post by FFS on Jul 28, 2021 19:56:57 GMT 1
That's a tough call that I will have to face sometime soon. If you climb first and start it after you get there you have to let go of the ladder to leave both hands free to start it. I'm tending to think start it on the ground first and climb with it running. Mine's not too heavy so it might be doable. Or attach a rope to it, so you can start it on the ground, climb to where you want to be then haul it up with the rope; at least that way you have both hands free for climbing. |
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ibis
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Post by ibis on Jul 28, 2021 20:07:11 GMT 1
It also depends on the machine and maintenance. Some of the higher priced, top of the line saws a 2 year old could pull to start. The cheaper or built for the mass market ones are going to be harder to start.
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Aardvark
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Living in soggy 22 and still wondering what's going on.
Posts: 2,172
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Post by Aardvark on Jul 29, 2021 8:58:54 GMT 1
That's a tough call that I will have to face sometime soon. If you climb first and start it after you get there you have to let go of the ladder to leave both hands free to start it. I'm tending to think start it on the ground first and climb with it running. Mine's not too heavy so it might be doable. Or attach a rope to it, so you can start it on the ground, climb to where you want to be then haul it up with the rope; at least that way you have both hands free for climbing. No way. Have you ever tried to suspend something like that while running. Its not going to keep still as you pull it up. Then you have the game of trying to grab the handle (and not the blade) as it gets near enough. I don't need both hands free for climbing. One is fine. When I was younger, fitter, and desperate for money I had to carry heavy stuff up very long ladders on a building site, like short RSJs, paving slabs etc. One hand steadying the load on my shoulder and the other to grab the ladder. |
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Post by lindalovely on Jul 30, 2021 14:20:26 GMT 1
That's a tough call that I will have to face sometime soon. If you climb first and start it after you get there you have to let go of the ladder to leave both hands free to start it. I'm tending to think start it on the ground first and climb with it running. Mine's not too heavy so it might be doable. Pay someone with insurance to do the job for you! |
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Aardvark
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Living in soggy 22 and still wondering what's going on.
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Post by Aardvark on Jul 30, 2021 16:25:29 GMT 1
Are you offering an interest free loan over say 6 months?
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