Aardvark
Non-gamer
Living in soggy 22 and still wondering what's going on.
Posts: 2,172
|
Post by Aardvark on Apr 10, 2023 10:09:58 GMT 1
I have been considering the advantage of having a solid concrete floor in the polytunnel for a few years now. Due to our plague of moles they undermine the tunnel and hump up the earth inside making it a bit dangerous. I have tried putting down a set of paving slabs down the middle but those get lifted by the moles and end up being equally dangerous. Since the cover is being replaced this year I though now might be the opportunity to lay some concrete down to act as a barrier to moles and maybe even act as a heat exchanger to store daytime heat for overnight release.
The problem is the sheer fitness needed to deal with a dozen 35kg sacks of readymix concrete.
The last time I did this sort of thing was putting a floor in my workshop. I paid one of the layabouts at Brico D. to load a pallet into the Transit just inside the back doors. Then I reversed the van up to the workshop. The mixer was placed just inside the door and a scaffold board was laid across as a bridge from van to mixer. I slid the bags one by one along the board and into the mixer. Add water, swing it around on its axle and tip it out. Worked well apart from some of the bags ripped as I was sliding them along the board but that was sorted by stapling some plastic DPC onto the board to make it slippery.
Now the big ol' Transit has gone for recycling and I have a little Peugeot Expert and it is much lower so it will be an uphill struggle to get the bags into the mixer at the polytunnel site. My question: (at long last) can I simply push the bags out onto the ground, split them open, and rake the contents out evenly and then spray some water over the top? This would avoid having to physically load the mixer, etc. taking that chore out of the sequence. I have seen people pour dry mix into post holes and add the water afterwards. Is there any reason this wouldn't be OK with a rough and ready surface for my polytunnel floor?
This project depends on me being able to get someone willing to load my van at the DIY shed.
|
|
|
|
Post by Polarengineer on Apr 10, 2023 10:48:26 GMT 1
A cheaper and lighter option would be to surround the polytunnel with chicken wire set 25 to 30 cm into the ground and support the rest above ground (assume 50cm wire on a roll of 25m) If you can handle a pickaxe, it is easy to make the slot in the earth with the wide blade.
|
|
exile
Member
Massif Central
Posts: 2,686
|
Post by exile on Apr 10, 2023 11:18:15 GMT 1
think just raking the mix on the floor and wetting it risks having bits of the floor that are very weak. The strength is quite dependent on the amount of water applied - which is why the mixer is a boon since you get a homogeneous mix and can judge by the consistency whether the water needs topping up or whether the mix is a bit thin.
|
|
|
|
Post by pcpa on Apr 10, 2023 11:18:55 GMT 1
Probably a lot more expensive but worth considering is a plancher hourdi and not bothering with the chappe on top.
i always used to use concrete window lintels as shed bearers but tht was for UK sheds that had a flor, I am considering the hourdi for some tin shed garden buildings, it will probbaly be too expensive but buying 25kg bags of cement is equally because I think they only give 11 litres of concrete, its written on the side.
I helped a friend replace a water main recently, we had to channel through the guys garage floor & used sacs of beton pret a lemploi, I use it dry for post holes so did the same and sprinkled it with water before trowelling off, it worked OK buy my pal was much better at floti,g off than me.
I dont knwo how it stood up but the lower part cured by moisture will be very strong.
|
|
|
|
Post by pcpa on Apr 10, 2023 11:22:33 GMT 1
I disagree Exile, the concrete will cure very slowly and draw the moisure it needs, having removed dry mix concrtede fence pots its as hadr as iron but may take months to cure for all I know, I think the risk is the wetted and floated surface, you dont tend to walk on fence post supports but I have used dry mix for exposed haunchings on kerbs and it has been fine.
The hardest ever concrete was the one that took 6 months to go off made with sharp sand contaminated with horse urine?
|
|
Aardvark
Non-gamer
Living in soggy 22 and still wondering what's going on.
Posts: 2,172
|
Post by Aardvark on Apr 10, 2023 14:38:17 GMT 1
Thanks for all the input guys. The chicken wire idea would certainly be cheapest but doesn't save much labour. I have a pickaxe somewhere. It is so heavy I gave up taking it to vide greniers to try to flog it. My trenching days are long gone. Even gardening type digging, raking, and related delights are now out of bounds.
I have three tin sheds with no proper floor. I was concerned about lack of planning permission so kept them "temporary" in case I had to remove them at some point. I just laid down a large sheet of tarpaulin or damp proof membrane held down at the edges by being stapled onto old treated fence posts. Then assembled the shed outside the perimeter of fenceposts. Two have had mole invasion and the third has mice.
|
|
|
|
Post by houpla on Apr 10, 2023 16:21:13 GMT 1
Won't the concrete break up anyway when the moles tunnel underneath? Are you planning to reinforce it with metal grille? We put a 10cm layer of extremely well-tamped calcaire down as a base for our terrace which was poured, fibre-reinforced concrete, but it's still cracked and that's without mole activity!
|
|
mysty
Member
Posts: 1,298
|
Post by mysty on Apr 10, 2023 17:26:59 GMT 1
I have been considering the advantage of having a solid concrete floor in the polytunnel for a few years now. Due to our plague of moles they undermine the tunnel and hump up the earth inside making it a bit dangerous. I have tried putting down a set of paving slabs down the middle but those get lifted by the moles and end up being equally dangerous. Since the cover is being replaced this year I though now might be the opportunity to lay some concrete down to act as a barrier to moles and maybe even act as a heat exchanger to store daytime heat for overnight release. The problem is the sheer fitness needed to deal with a dozen 35kg sacks of readymix concrete. The last time I did this sort of thing was putting a floor in my workshop. I paid one of the layabouts at Brico D. to load a pallet into the Transit just inside the back doors. Then I reversed the van up to the workshop. The mixer was placed just inside the door and a scaffold board was laid across as a bridge from van to mixer. I slid the bags one by one along the board and into the mixer. Add water, swing it around on its axle and tip it out. Worked well apart from some of the bags ripped as I was sliding them along the board but that was sorted by stapling some plastic DPC onto the board to make it slippery. Now the big ol' Transit has gone for recycling and I have a little Peugeot Expert and it is much lower so it will be an uphill struggle to get the bags into the mixer at the polytunnel site. My question: (at long last) can I simply push the bags out onto the ground, split them open, and rake the contents out evenly and then spray some water over the top? This would avoid having to physically load the mixer, etc. taking that chore out of the sequence. I have seen people pour dry mix into post holes and add the water afterwards. Is there any reason this wouldn't be OK with a rough and ready surface for my polytunnel floor? This project depends on me being able to get someone willing to load my van at the DIY shed. A truck load of ready mix might work out cheaper and less work but both could be a heart attack check now. Even the smaller sacks of cement seem heavier now. Good luck. |
|
|
|
Post by pcpa on Apr 10, 2023 18:33:19 GMT 1
Tha absence of a base included with any shed in France is a pi55take in my view, they are about a rigid as a lettuce and the Bricos cannot even display them properly without a base to hold them together.
A lady offered me a load of timber offcuts if I were to take everything and dump what was not of any use, I went today and brought away some of it and will return with the trailer tomorrow if my eye permits, amongst it all was a wooden shed base and a couple of side panels, it had almost certainly made its way acorss the channel.
If someone gave me a French shed it doubtfull whether I would think it worth the money constructing a base, having been given a base and maybe one side its definitely worth me consyructing the rest!
|
|
Aardvark
Non-gamer
Living in soggy 22 and still wondering what's going on.
Posts: 2,172
|
Post by Aardvark on Apr 10, 2023 21:23:11 GMT 1
Just for the Hell of it I Googled price of ready mixed concrete delivery in France. On the first page of results it listed a thread on this very forum I started back in 2016 asking about readymix. The answer was about €180 a cubic metre delivered.
My answer would be the same today. No way. I will forget about the proper floor in the polytunnel. Maybe if I can find enough pallets I can drop them in to make a raised floor that the moles won't disturb too much. Cost=zero. Pain=moderate.
|
|
|
|
Post by houpla on Apr 10, 2023 21:39:31 GMT 1
Good idea, A! With the added advantage that, if you ever decide to grow directly in the soil, it won't be polluted and alkaline because of lime leaching out of concrete  |
|
Nifty
Member
Posts: 5,025
|
Post by Nifty on Apr 10, 2023 21:43:27 GMT 1
ar Arrdvark
The chicken wire idea would certainly be cheapest but doesn't save much labour. I have a pickaxe somewhere. It is so heavy I gave up taking it to vide greniers to try to flog it. My trenching days are long gone. Even gardening type digging, raking, and related delights are now out of bounds.
small Ditch witch similar to roravator How much to hire?
|
|
mysty
Member
Posts: 1,298
|
Post by mysty on Apr 10, 2023 21:46:31 GMT 1
Just for the Hell of it I Googled price of ready mixed concrete delivery in France. On the first page of results it listed a thread on this very forum I started back in 2016 asking about readymix. The answer was about €180 a cubic metre delivered. My answer would be the same today. No way. I will forget about the proper floor in the polytunnel. Maybe if I can find enough pallets I can drop them in to make a raised floor that the moles won't disturb too much. Cost=zero. Pain=moderate. How did you start a thread on this forum in 2016 😃 |
|
Aardvark
Non-gamer
Living in soggy 22 and still wondering what's going on.
Posts: 2,172
|
Post by Aardvark on Apr 11, 2023 9:26:44 GMT 1
Senior moment. It was my local forum. |
|
lurcher
Member
Posts: 578
Member is Online
|
Post by lurcher on Apr 11, 2023 12:58:35 GMT 1
think just raking the mix on the floor and wetting it risks having bits of the floor that are very weak. The strength is quite dependent on the amount of water applied - which is why the mixer is a boon since you get a homogeneous mix and can judge by the consistency whether the water needs topping up or whether the mix is a bit thin. I agree with this analysis. It is true that dry mix fence post does go off over a long period and is very strong eventually. The problem with spreading a layer of dry, ready mix is that by applying sufficient water by spraying is that the top layer will have most of the cement powder washed away leaving mostly gravel and a bit of sharp sand. The resulting concrete slab will be very weak and crumbly. |
|
