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Post by traveller on Oct 1, 2023 10:29:51 GMT 1
Sorry to hear of your own personal experience Jackie, I’m saddened to hear the views from your group, I’d thought we had left those days behind us, but sadly not.
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Post by mangetout on Oct 1, 2023 10:42:08 GMT 1
I would just like to say that the vast, vast majority of men are kind, considerate and well mannered towards women. My husband was a honey, he wouldn't have dreamed of swearing in front of a woman let alone make a move on them. It's for society to control those who behave inappropriately even if what they do is not against the law. Hence we need to keep calling out the likes of Brand for all our sakes.
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Nifty
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Post by Nifty on Oct 1, 2023 11:27:01 GMT 1
I belong to a craft group, all women, mostly British. All in our 70s, some older. We discussed Brand whilst we sat together doing our individual crafts and I was astounded at the consensus. To a woman, except for me, they thought it was a lot of noise over nothing. They said it's normal for men to harass women, you've just got to put them in their place! As someone who was raped as a young girl I find that utterly appalling. I didn't reveal my past but I tried to convince them that his behaviour was vile and he needed to be called out. Most agreed he was a nasty bit of work but that it's just something women have to put up with. That's like saying "if I had to put up with it, so do you". I despair of my own sex if they won't stand up for young girls. A generational thing I hope. I feel as though there’s a war going on to push women down again going on - a young girl was stabbed and killed this week for rejecting a boys advances and I despair at Andrew Tates awful misogynistic videos being so popular. So sorry for your experience, Mangetout xxxxx Never heard of Andrew Tate until Mangetout mentioned the name.
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Post by mangetout on Oct 1, 2023 11:34:23 GMT 1
I didn't, Jackie did
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Post by jackie on Oct 1, 2023 14:18:46 GMT 1
Sorry to hear of your own personal experience Jackie, I’m saddened to hear the views from your group, I’d thought we had left those days behind us, but sadly not. Not me but Mangetout x
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Post by ForumUser2 on Oct 1, 2023 16:01:07 GMT 1
I would just like to say that the vast, vast majority of men are kind, considerate and well mannered towards women. My husband was a honey, he wouldn't have dreamed of swearing in front of a woman let alone make a move on them. It's for society to control those who behave inappropriately even if what they do is not against the law. Hence we need to keep calling out the likes of Brand for all our sakes. What it really needs is for those around these loathsome individuals to stop being self-serving cowards and show them up for the bullying, egocentric narcissists they really are. And to those that think - Oh, it's just a bit of banter - we'll, for shame on you for being part of the problem rather than part of the solution.
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Post by jardiniere on Oct 1, 2023 16:05:20 GMT 1
To a woman, except for me, they thought it was a lot of noise over nothing. No wonder you were astounded. I find that incredible. Heaven help the world with such attitudes still prevailing.
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Post by cernunnos on Oct 1, 2023 18:36:32 GMT 1
To a woman, except for me, they thought it was a lot of noise over nothing. No wonder you were astounded. I find that incredible. Heaven help the world with such attitudes still prevailing. It seems that is the prevailing attitude of the majority, democracy at it's best . Don't be suprised , it is not our generation.
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Nifty
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Post by Nifty on Oct 2, 2023 9:20:49 GMT 1
People try to put us down…….
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Nifty
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Post by Nifty on Oct 2, 2023 11:15:46 GMT 1
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Post by iolar on Dec 17, 2023 16:00:25 GMT 1
It should have all changed in the 60s in the West but it didn't. A lot of 'hippie' girls engaged in 'free love' it wasn't they were actually used as free prostitutes.Just because a lot of guys had long hair didn't mean that they had changed.
It isn't only men that have to change, it's women as well. How many girls today are actually fit, strong, work out. How many know how to inflict serious damage on male knuckledraggers or even how to kill them. How often do you read of girls getting raped, walking home alone in the early hours of the morning.
It is the duty of a real father to make sure that his daughters are fit and do know how to defend themselves. It's the duty of mothers to make sure that their sons are brought up to respect women and know how to wipe their own rear ends. In Southern Europe, far too many mother spoil their sons, so when they get married they expect their wives to do the same.
Until about 7 years ago My wife used to go to annual reunions with women she trained with as nurses all those decades ago. She never had to think how I would look after myself because I was self sufficient long before I met her but all her friends had to prepare meals for their husbands in the freezers.
The likes of Brand and Tate weren't born that way. When I was a young boy we lived in a house made up of flats. in the flat above us lived a Glaswegian mad and his wife. He would come in from the pub at night and kick her round the floor - I had nightmares for years. I asked my father why he and the other men that lived in the house didn't beat him up or go to the police. I never remember getting any kind of answer. The years passed and I became friends with their one son, called Richie. Eventually we lost touch and then one day when I was about 24 I saw an article in the local paper where he had got married, had two children and had raped four girls.
None of this would have happened if decent men had beaten the father to death or the State had executed him - all it takes for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing.
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Post by jackie on Dec 18, 2023 11:51:53 GMT 1
Iolar - Your suggestion that women should be fit enough to be able to defend themselves against potential male attackers is again putting the onus on women to protect themselves against male aggression. They shouldn’t have to - its up to men to tackle their problem of their gender’s violent tendencies towards women themselves which I appreciate is what you are suggesting too.
What about women who can’t defend themselves? For example old or ill women. They should feel comfortable enough to venure out and about doing whatever they want without risking, or worrying about being attacked. To suggest that all women should be fit and have the relevant defensive training is a not really that well thought out to be honest….
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Post by Nutty on Dec 18, 2023 18:09:51 GMT 1
Russell Brand - another reason to be thankful we live in France.
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Post by tim17 on Dec 19, 2023 8:23:07 GMT 1
Brand was questioned by the police again yesterday, nine women have now made official complaints so I'd be amazed if he wasn't charged at some point.
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Post by iolar on Dec 19, 2023 11:22:52 GMT 1
Iolar - Your suggestion that women should be fit enough to be able to defend themselves against potential male attackers is again putting the onus on women to protect themselves against male aggression. They shouldn’t have to - its up to men to tackle their problem of their gender’s violent tendencies towards women themselves which I appreciate is what you are suggesting too. What about women who can’t defend themselves? For example old or ill women. They should feel comfortable enough to venure out and about doing whatever they want without risking, or worrying about being attacked. To suggest that all women should be fit and have the relevant defensive training is a not really that well thought out to be honest…. Jackie - you want men to change but not women why is that? The last time that the vast majority of women in the UK ran was at school. Angela has an old friend she keeps in contact with via whats app. She is an active member of her local Protestant church and this church decided it was a good idea to organise a medium distance walk. She like most people these days use a car far too often. She had to go out and buy some decent walking shoes and outdoor clothing. Your quite wrong when you say that violent men have to tackle their problem. The most important person in a girl's life is not her mother, it's her father or father figure. It's unimportant if that person is not her biological father. What is important is that there is man who she can turn to to express her feelings, her happiness, sadness who she can trust, who gives her parameters (very important for all children). This relationship prepares her for how to deal with the male of the species. Without this absolutely vital relationship growing up, girls will later encounter all kinds of problems with boys/men. It's exactly the same for boys. Too often mothers spoil their sons and they grow up with an entitled, selfish attitude. As I said in my previous post my boyhood friend Ritchie would never have become the rapist and I'm sure he was violent with his young wife but that was the role model he grew up with. The fact that you mention old or ill women that are attacked is precisely my point - they are attacked because they are weak. Rape isn't about sex, it's about power. How many women stay with an abusive man, why don't they leave the very first time they are assaulted or why not fight back - it's all about self worth, self respect and if they didn't learn this as girls with a healthy male influence they are fated to suffer this kind of treatment. Two young women can walk into a bar, one will be treated like trash and the other won't - why, because she simply won't allow herself to be treated any other why. I remember once when I still had some kind of relationship with my narcissistic sister. We were walking along road and she saw a girl she had gone to secondary school with. She ignored her and said "oh her she was a nymphomaniac" said with real contempt. I asked my sister "did you know anything about her family, especially her father". Why asked my sister, "what's that go to do with anything". Just tell me I said. Her reply was that he worked away from home a lot, sometimes for long periods. So she never really had any kind of relationship with him - and there's your reason for her behaviour with boys. What did you expect her father to do - change his job. I often think that my sister might well have tuned out very differently if (1) my mother hadn't spoiled her ( my mother had a fragmented childhood) and my father hadn't been away in the war in North Africa for so long. A lot of children had unhealthy childhoods all over Europe because of the war. There was an ex-para who lived in Brighton, he had 3 children, two boys and a girl, they were all healthy young people. One emigrated to Seattle and one was into weight lifting, a lovely gentle young man who didn't use steroids and his sister was into karate with either a brown or black belt. She decided to go to Barcelona on holiday and one night 3 men decided they were going to gang rape her - she put the three of them in hospital. The Mossos d'Esquadra/police were greatly impressed. You know when I lived in the Netherlands at least 60-70% of the women were fit, no fat slobs. They cycled everywhere, ate sensibly and demanded respect from men and got it. Indeed it's the women who make the first move, have strong opinions and make their voice heard. Unlike so many women in the UK, they don't use alcohol as a shield. They stay fit all their lives. on a Sunday for example you would see the average Dutch family - man,wife and two kids out on their bikes in all weathers. When we arrived in France from Spain, we had left in great heat 45C in the afternoon and arrived in a heat wave 40C. When we had recovered we went for a walk to a place we had heard was a very pretty village - Centre. the round journey was 21K. We were a bit tired when we returned, our two dogs had thoroughly enjoyed it. My wife was 71 years old. we havn't met a single UK woman who would even contemplate such a walk, let alone do it at any age. Whereas all over France there are walking clubs full of women just as old as Angela that regularly walk that distance and more. Sadly a lot of young French women are going the same way as too many in the UK. Angela used to belong to a gym in Hove and did Pilates for some time - she was always far fitter than all her friends. There are small % of women in the UK who do keep themselves fit, work out and run and boy are they attractive, the rest - no thank you. Guaranteed to have difficult births and plenty of health problems sooner, rather than later in life. You pays your money and make your choice.
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