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Post by lurcher on Oct 4, 2023 12:49:33 GMT 1
Our kitchen hot water tap has developed a strange problem. It is a traditional multi turn tap with a washer. There are no leaks and I have already changed the washer in an attempt to fix the problem. The problem is that it takes a few turns before water comes out and then about the same number of turns to close it again before any change to the flow rate. It should behave just like a normal tap where the flow is immediately available as soon as the tap is turned and similarly in reverse. This hysteresis is very annoying and my son keeps asking why I haven’t fixed it. My previous attempt failed to improve matters but I could not see how the inner workings should be set up. It is as if there is a double screw mechanism that is no longer working. I would appreciate any advice from the experienced members. Thanks.
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mysty
Member
Posts: 1,298
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Post by mysty on Oct 4, 2023 21:59:10 GMT 1
I had to Google hysteresis as I had never heard of it and am now even more confused. Before I googled it I thought you might have some debris in the tap mesh but that would probably be wrong.
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Post by lapourtaider on Oct 4, 2023 22:43:44 GMT 1
Our kitchen hot water tap has developed a strange problem. It is a traditional multi turn tap with a washer. There are no leaks and I have already changed the washer in an attempt to fix the problem. The problem is that it takes a few turns before water comes out and then about the same number of turns to close it again before any change to the flow rate. It should behave just like a normal tap where the flow is immediately available as soon as the tap is turned and similarly in reverse. The only time I've seen something like that, the washer wasn't being held tightly by it's securing screw.
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Post by Polarengineer on Oct 5, 2023 7:16:27 GMT 1
This type of tap has an internal cartridge that needs replacing. The unit has a rubber washer attached to a moveable piston. This piston has an internal thread, the tap handle rotates a screw that fits this internal thread. When the mating threads get worn, the handle turns some way before the piston reacts. This would cause your problem. It is easy to take apart and check this screw, however, you cannot repair it and a new cartridge is required.
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Post by lurcher on Oct 5, 2023 7:58:23 GMT 1
Thanks PE for that clear description which fits what I saw with the tap dismantled partially. Yesterday I checked the amount of rotation from completely closed to the start of flow and it was about two full rotations and the same in reverse. Would wear in the thread produce such a large movement? Replacing the inner cylinder does seem to be the answer. The tap unit is about 30 years old but a good quality Franke model. If they still exist, I may try to find an exact replacement but failing that an Internet search is waiting for me. One of my better, local plumbers merchants has produced quite rare items from their stores in the past. I will report back on any progress.
p.s. Do you think a bit of loctite or other non-permanent filler would be worth trying?
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Aardvark
Non-gamer
Living in soggy 22 and still wondering what's going on.
Posts: 2,172
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Post by Aardvark on Oct 5, 2023 9:46:36 GMT 1
Don't bother. If as you say your tap is a good quality one I would disassemble it and remove the cartridge. Take it along to one of the better stocked DIY sheds and have a look for a replacement. There are plenty available and not desperately expensive, certainly cheaper than a full tap replacement or a plumber trying to fund his next holiday in Thailand.
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Post by Polarengineer on Oct 5, 2023 9:54:11 GMT 1
The extra turns will be down to the spindle retainer being worn. The screw spindle must rotate but not move up or down, there is a circlip on the top under the handle spline ( or if it is really old, a square shank) this may be part or all of the problem. If you can remove the circlip and add some brass washers under it to remove the vertical play, replace the circlip and test it. Hope that works for you.
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dylan
Non-gamer
Posts: 44
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Post by dylan on Oct 5, 2023 20:48:35 GMT 1
What you really need is Vic Evans, he gives excellent advice (or did before being driven away)
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mysty
Member
Posts: 1,298
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Post by mysty on Oct 5, 2023 21:26:39 GMT 1
What you really need is Vic Evans, he gives excellent advice (or did before being driven away) Who took him ? Have the gendarme got any news.? Will his wife pay a ransom?
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Post by lurcher on Oct 6, 2023 8:25:59 GMT 1
I remember Vic and his good advice. I contacted Franke to ask about spare parts and they replied in a day. Unfortunately they say my tap was discontinued 20 years ago and they do not have any spares so buy a new one.
The next step is to find a couple of hours when the tap is not needed, remove the cylinder, check if it is possible to apply one or more of your modifications or take it to my reliable plumbers merchant.
Thanks everyone.
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mysty
Member
Posts: 1,298
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Post by mysty on Oct 7, 2023 13:02:09 GMT 1
Our kitchen hot water tap has developed a strange problem. It is a traditional multi turn tap with a washer. There are no leaks and I have already changed the washer in an attempt to fix the problem. The problem is that it takes a few turns before water comes out and then about the same number of turns to close it again before any change to the flow rate. It should behave just like a normal tap where the flow is immediately available as soon as the tap is turned and similarly in reverse. This hysteresis is very annoying and my son keeps asking why I haven’t fixed it. My previous attempt failed to improve matters but I could not see how the inner workings should be set up. It is as if there is a double screw mechanism that is no longer working. I would appreciate any advice from the experienced members. Thanks. I normally just go for cheap taps, when they go faulty I change them. Your tap lasted a long time.
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Aardvark
Non-gamer
Living in soggy 22 and still wondering what's going on.
Posts: 2,172
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Post by Aardvark on Oct 7, 2023 14:49:51 GMT 1
So do I. And they tend to last well. The things that don't are those diabolical flexi links that you can't get a spanner on to tighten properly because they are sunk so deep into the bottom of the tap.
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Post by lurcher on Oct 7, 2023 17:55:50 GMT 1
In France I have had to dismantle whole sink units to change taps like that. Even using a long reach special spanner it proved impossible to deal with the fixing system in situ.
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Post by lurcher on Nov 16, 2023 17:46:24 GMT 1
I just thought I should report the outcome of my tap problem. After opening it up again, the first thing that was evident was a circling that was in the correct position but seemed to be loose. A quick poke made it fall out of its groove and on inspection it was badly worn. I do not have any spare circlips so I spent about four pounds on a selection box full. The replacement was in position a few minutes after the box arrived. The result is an almost perfect operation, not perfect due to some other worn thread as some of you suggested. Here are a few images of the bits involved. Thanks everyone.
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Post by annabellespapa on Nov 16, 2023 18:03:09 GMT 1
I remember Vic and his good advice. I contacted Franke to ask about spare parts and they replied in a day. Unfortunately they say my tap was discontinued 20 years ago and they do not have any spares so buy a new one. The next step is to find a couple of hours when the tap is not needed, remove the cylinder, check if it is possible to apply one or more of your modifications or take it to my reliable plumbers merchant. Thanks everyone. Don't bother fiddling with it, we have a swan neck Franke tap and after only 5 years it was leaking and playing up the cartridge replacements are fairly standard and we bought an after market replacement pair for under £8, used one on the hot tap side and the other is in reserve, make sure you line up the tap positions correctly as it will look odd- what I have just written will not make sense until you just get to the end of your replacement but have it is the back of your mind as will annoy you for years to come, I know from experience.
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