|
|
Post by mangetout on Mar 19, 2023 8:05:05 GMT 1
Just another couple of observations to throw into the pot.
1. Currently the pension pot is in credit and has been for a few years.
2. Don't you find it strange that as people are living slightly longer, the only solution that is considered an option is to make people work longer. The extra years people live, if they do at all, are generally spent in poor health and they only live longer because the health system keeps them alive.
Changing the retirement age is a political decision, and one taken by a man who is hell bent on leaving his mark. And worst of all, he has done it without agreement. Pushing this through without a vote is a big mistake.
|
|
|
|
Post by mangetout on Mar 19, 2023 8:07:28 GMT 1
From my perspective, I'm pleased to see the people stand up for themselves rather than rolling over like the average Brit. Normally I'd agree, mangetout, but not over this issue. I can't work up any sympathy for the EDF and SNCF workers with their special regimes, for the unions (always the same ones pushing for the same sectors) or for French kicking off about having to work until they're 64. I was robbed of 6 years-worth of pension by HM Gov. Will be lucky to get to pension age, let alone enjoy many years of it. The reform has to happen. The French know this, but act like spoilt children as soon as any reform hints at affecting them personally. It's pathetic! Oh Houpla. You complain, quite rightly, of being robbed of your pension. So was I. And then you advocate doing the same to others. |
|
Nifty
Member
Posts: 3,756
|
Post by Nifty on Mar 19, 2023 8:39:27 GMT 1
I feel a song coming on.
The crucial lines were sung by this lady.
|
|
|
|
Post by tim17 on Mar 19, 2023 8:42:38 GMT 1
France is suffering the same problems as many other countries - higher life expectancy and falling birth rates. To offset that with regards to paying for pensions either you pay considerably more in contributions during your lifetime so the country's pension pot is always kept topped up or you raise the pension starting age so that people have a shorter retirement.
|
|
Nifty
Member
Posts: 3,756
|
Post by Nifty on Mar 19, 2023 9:07:04 GMT 1
|
|
|
|
Post by norfolk on Mar 19, 2023 9:18:14 GMT 1
Hey you lot, don’t bite !!!  |
|
|
|
Post by pcpa on Mar 19, 2023 10:23:12 GMT 1
That is not what I said.
What needs to be achieved is that current taxpayers can fund the current retirees and future taxpayers fund future retirees, have you any idea of the numbers, how many taxpayers vs retirees and the divergence of them over the last 4 decades?
How would the massive funding gap and debt reverse in the 2030's with current employment rates, birth rates and life expectancy let alone with lower employment through higher wages?
Did the Prof say where the magic money tree was?
|
|
|
|
Post by pcpa on Mar 19, 2023 10:26:11 GMT 1
Currently the pension pot is in credit and has been for a few years. Do you know that or is it what the Professeur said?
There is no "pension pot" there are 42 different caisse de retraite and they are all in a very bad position, the word credit does not come into the equation, any business has to have cash reserves and investments but its viability is a function of its income (including from reserves) vs its outgoings.
I have had no income for 3 years, I now have more than double the outgoings with 2 properties and its increasing every month yet my "pot" is still in credit thank heavens.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2023 11:19:52 GMT 1
Equally I don't recollect @joseph posting about the failures of the North Yorkshire Constabulary as pointed out by the inspectors this week. Don't listen to omegal et al! I live further north than North Yorkshire. |
|
|
|
Post by mangetout on Mar 19, 2023 11:23:08 GMT 1
The Senate produced a paper on the 2022 budget on social and pensions expenditure. I'm useless at adding links, so can only ask you to search for yourself. Pensions are a very complex subject, one that I doubt anyone on this forum truly understands. When I read something produced by an academic from the likes of Science Po, or the government, I have to accept they know more than me. Judging by your obvious financial acumen, perhaps you should offer your expertise  |
|
|
|
Post by houpla on Mar 19, 2023 13:34:00 GMT 1
Normally I'd agree, mangetout, but not over this issue. I can't work up any sympathy for the EDF and SNCF workers with their special regimes, for the unions (always the same ones pushing for the same sectors) or for French kicking off about having to work until they're 64. I was robbed of 6 years-worth of pension by HM Gov. Will be lucky to get to pension age, let alone enjoy many years of it. The reform has to happen. The French know this, but act like spoilt children as soon as any reform hints at affecting them personally. It's pathetic! Oh Houpla. You complain, quite rightly, of being robbed of your pension. So was I. And then you advocate doing the same to others. Not at all! I feel that successive Presidents have given fair warning that change would have to happen, even if they subsequently bottled out of implementing it. 64 isn't excessively old, although it might seem it to a 20 year-old  What's causing all this fuss is more about the French mindset....as a nation they are inculcated from birth with the idea that work is something tiresome that interrupts weekends and holidays. I'm not saying that attitude is wrong (or right). In the long term, if schools and parents encouraged children to enjoy learning and careers guidance was improved to encourage the novel idea that you could get fulfillment from your job, they'd all be happier as a nation? Perhaps not  The question of whether people doing hard, physical jobs are able to continue into their mid 60s is something else all together. If there was a way of staggering retirement by reducing the hours worked, perhaps by job-sharing with a youngster, that would be a good thing both physically and psychologically. |
|
|
|
Post by omegal on Mar 19, 2023 13:44:34 GMT 1
Equally I don't recollect @joseph posting about the failures of the North Yorkshire Constabulary as pointed out by the inspectors this week. Don't listen to omegal et al! I live further north than North Yorkshire. And on the other hand don't take any notice of a man who informs us through his "wife" that he had died. |
|
|
|
Post by norfolk on Mar 19, 2023 13:47:22 GMT 1
|
|
|
|
Post by pcpa on Mar 19, 2023 14:02:38 GMT 1
Judging by your obvious financial acumen, perhaps you should offer your expertise I would respectfully ask that you refrain from the personal jibes which you have carried over onto another thread, if you don't want to explain what other options the professeur puts forwards that is fine by me. |
|
|
|
Post by pcpa on Mar 19, 2023 14:09:42 GMT 1
In the UK my taxi driver pal started his new career as a train driver 5 years after the French ones retired and was delighetd to do so, much more money and benefits very undemanding, he was agog at the thought of retiring at 50 (then) from a job that he had chosen because it was something that he could easily do however old he became.
Due to insufficient pension provision (another 2 years before I recieve anything) I will be starting my next career at 4 years beyond the current French pension age and a decade after a French tradesman would have retired from that métier.
|
|
What's causing all this fuss is more about the French mindset....as a nation they are inculcated from birth with the idea that work is something tiresome that interrupts weekends and holidays. I'm not saying that attitude is wrong (or right). In the long term, if schools and parents encouraged children to enjoy learning and careers guidance was improved to encourage the novel idea that you could get fulfillment from your job, they'd all be happier as a nation? Perhaps not 
The question of whether people doing hard, physical jobs are able to continue into their mid 60s is something else all together. If there was a way of staggering retirement by reducing the hours worked, perhaps by job-sharing with a youngster, that would be a good thing both physically and psychologically.