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Post by leclairon on Apr 18, 2023 18:49:45 GMT 1
Can someone tell me what the current rules are for a carte grise for a trailer. I thought I remembered it having changed. The label plate on the one we have seen says Lider 750kg on the left of the label, then 500kg PTAC on the right of the label. It is a single axel.
I did a search but the info seemed to be a couple of years ago.
Thanks
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Post by pcpa on Apr 18, 2023 19:33:53 GMT 1
Over 500kg carte grise required hence why it has been downrated.
I believe that prior to the 2012 amendment the limit was 750kg, maybe someone can confirm or deny.
The waters get muddied by over 750kg requiring brakes and many car insurances including mine including towing of any trailer under 750kg.
Dependant on the format of your tare plate the 750kg is probably the axle (rated) weight, their most pupular seller is a twin axle trailer with both axles rated at 750kg (2 stampings on the tare plate) and with four 500kg tyres but the PTAC is 499kg and the Pvide only a few kg less than that, I often see them towing 1.5 M3 of that magic weightless sand that the grossistes sell.
I have made up derated tare plates for my Roulottes and Ifor trailers some at 500kg the very old ones ones I am chancing it with 750kg, anyone with any knowledge would know that the Ifors weigh more than that unladen, the roulottes might be just under but they are intended for towing empty to site and then loading, they are mobile site huts.
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Post by lapourtaider on Apr 18, 2023 19:37:47 GMT 1
Up to 500kg PTAC, no CG required. Above 500kg, therefore a CG is required. Above 750kg PTAC, the remorque has to be braked (IIRC).
Edit: Snap!
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Post by leclairon on Apr 18, 2023 19:38:38 GMT 1
That's a blow - I thought I recalled it changing. Tks a lot pcpa.
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Post by lapourtaider on Apr 18, 2023 19:44:08 GMT 1
Just to clarify. If the Tare plate says PTAC 500kg, no CG is necessary.
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Post by limousinlady on Apr 18, 2023 20:05:55 GMT 1
We bought exactly that trailer about 2 years ago. No carte gris, but our insurance company did insist on a separate policy even though our old trailer had been included in the car insurance (Allianz).
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Post by pcpa on Apr 18, 2023 20:39:26 GMT 1
LeClairon, you can happily use your trailer with no requirement for a carte grise or seperate insurance, it is (de)rated at 500kg gross weight. Theoretically you should know the unladen weight (it should be shown as Poids Vide or P Vide) and ensure that whatever you carry added to that does not take you over the PTAC 500kg rating. Were that enforced on the ground they would never be able to sell the twin axle 500kg ones as they could only carry less than a bag of cement or a single sheet of plasterboard. When I think what has been carried in my unbraked roulottes during my removals last year it makes even me reflect that I was pushing my luck yet I shared an Aire d'Autoroute with a large peloton of the Gendarmerie one lunch time, vehicles plus motorccyles, I parked right amongst them on the basis its best to hide in plain sight, they cahtted with me about my journey but paid no attention to the clearly overladen trailer or its tare plate. Most times any overloading is only to and from a local builders merchants and we would all drive with due caution, your trailer is built as a 750kg trailer and with a considerablefactor of safety, its only downrated on the plate to 500kg for commercial reasons, they can sell a lot more of them if people dont have to register and insure them.
Sorry for any typos.
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Post by Polarengineer on Apr 19, 2023 6:45:27 GMT 1
We bought exactly that trailer about 2 years ago. No carte gris, but our insurance company did insist on a separate policy even though our old trailer had been included in the car insurance (Allianz). We had the same, but this year, being fed up with Allianz, we changed all insurances to MMA and saved 1/3 of the total costs. We still have separate insurance for the trailer, but so much cheaper. |
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Post by leclairon on Apr 19, 2023 8:23:13 GMT 1
Oh, that sounds better. If I have understood, the fact that it says Lider 750kg doesn't mean a Carte Grise provided the PTAC isn't over 500kg!
Thanks for all that info.
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Post by pcpa on Apr 19, 2023 11:29:26 GMT 1
Correct re the PTAC, that is the most important.
I believe the 750kg is the axle rating but could you please confirm the printed lettering before it?
Rural Master are selling Lider single axle (I think) 750kg trailers with a 500kg PTAC on the tare plate, no carte grise required, something like a 120kg load capacity, for an "administration charge" of €120 they will un-derate it to either 600kg or 750kg showing what a nonssense this whole thing is.
sorry for any typos
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Post by limousinlady on Apr 19, 2023 17:14:09 GMT 1
We bought exactly that trailer about 2 years ago. No carte gris, but our insurance company did insist on a separate policy even though our old trailer had been included in the car insurance (Allianz). We had the same, but this year, being fed up with Allianz, we changed all insurances to MMA and saved 1/3 of the total costs. We still have separate insurance for the trailer, but so much cheaper. They do seem to get more and more expensive each year even asking for 'whats the best you can do' The health insurance is the worst. I will have a look at MMA. How much notice did you have to give? Edit: we have an MMA local to us - so thank you. |
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Post by beejay on Apr 19, 2023 17:49:11 GMT 1
Correct re the PTAC, that is the most important. I believe the 750kg is the axle rating but could you please confirm the printed lettering before it? Rural Master are selling Lider single axle (I think) 750kg trailers with a 500kg PTAC on the tare plate, no carte grise required, something like a 120kg load capacity, for an "administration charge" of €120 they will un-derate it to either 600kg or 750kg showing what a nonssense this whole thing is. sorry for any typos
Very much like UK caravans where manufacturers will uprate the Gross Vehicle Weight to match the axle already fitted for a sizable fee and supply a plate to suit.
It's a sales pitch to provide caravans to match the demand to keep within the '85% match' caravan to car weights. The fact that the payload for the base unit is ridiculously low gets overlooked.
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Post by Polarengineer on Apr 20, 2023 6:34:16 GMT 1
We had the same, but this year, being fed up with Allianz, we changed all insurances to MMA and saved 1/3 of the total costs. We still have separate insurance for the trailer, but so much cheaper. They do seem to get more and more expensive each year even asking for 'whats the best you can do' The health insurance is the worst. I will have a look at MMA. How much notice did you have to give? Edit: we have an MMA local to us - so thank you. None. MMA did all the work notifying Allianz and cancelling the insurances. We had to get the mandat de résiliation (simply emailed them) from Allianz to transfer our bonus malus for the car insurance, also notify the car kilometrage and how much travel per year you make in the car. We do less than 7000km/y and that also saves a lot of premium. We knew Allianz were ripping us off when they insured our quad as a normal car. The house insurance was also much cheaper at MMA. I made a spread sheet of all the insurances, contract numbers and costs to do the comparison with The MMA offers. Later, I used this and gave it to for them to sort it out with Allianz (without the costs shown). |
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Post by limousinlady on Apr 20, 2023 8:56:11 GMT 1
Polar Engineer - Brilliant - thank you. If there is a parainage scheme pm me. Ours are all due for renewal in September, so will probably start the ball rolling next month.
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Post by pcpa on Apr 20, 2023 11:24:44 GMT 1
Are you able to cancel and change insurers at any time during the contract now or is it still at renewal? I had heard there had been some changes.
If the latter did MMA take care of it during the year at the appropriate time?
Sadly you have to keep changing, they all work on the basis of rasing premiumse very year more than they need blaming high levels of claims, head office etc, if you challeneg they will always come down but not to what it should/would be for a ne w customer & it gets tiresome.
After a few years of this any other insurer can easily reduce the premium by 40%, its a merry go round of disatisfied customers going from one agnet to another.
Allianz insured the hôtel, they were the only ones to offer reasonable cover for location saisonnière, it shot up after a year as I expected, I had warned the giy that if they did that I would cancel and he wound back most of the increase despite the protestations that the renewal price was not set by the agency and that they could not alter it, I begrudgingly accepted the now moderate increase and warned him that we would not be having the cponversation next year, I would go elsewhere, in reamlity I had nowehere else offering the cover I needed.
His way of avoiding the situation was to never send me an avis d'echéance again and to jst put up the monthly prelevement. I have let it slip because of the confinement, selling up in the UK and moving in France etc but its a priority now for me to get affordable insurance now the building is not being exploited.
Car insurance has gone up a lot as well but as I have the cheapest minimal cover I'm not sure I can get a lot better elsewhere, they havn't even sent a vignette this year, I know they are due to be abolished but it hasn't been enacted yet, they probably expect me to print out my own.
sorry for any typos
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