JohnnyD
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Mayenne (53) When Covid allows..........Which isn't very often these days........
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Post by JohnnyD on Jan 7, 2024 18:04:59 GMT 1
The last couple of visits here, the boiler has tripped the RCD after about 30 minutes, after that it doesn't seem to trip it again unless the boiler is turned off for a while, whatever causes this may have always been there, as the wiring was adjusted last year to make the house more safe, has anyone seen anything similar? Do i just ignore it? I remember a place I worked where sensitive computer equipment was doing a similar thing, and the electrician that came around said he had heard of this before, and basically set up a separate circuit not covered by the RCD to get round it.
JD
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Post by lurcher on Jan 7, 2024 19:13:59 GMT 1
Don’t ignore it, you will eventually discover the reason. Don’t rewire, bypassing the rcd. The fault finding will be difficult due to its intermittent nature. I am.sure you have mentioned in previous posts what kind of boiler it is but I can’t remember. Is it a gas or oil boiler?
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JohnnyD
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Mayenne (53) When Covid allows..........Which isn't very often these days........
Posts: 2,014
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Post by JohnnyD on Jan 7, 2024 21:25:25 GMT 1
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Post by robertarthur on Jan 8, 2024 0:23:59 GMT 1
JohnnyD, one or more RCDs? The standard ID (Interrupteur Différentiel) trips around 23 mA. Too difficult to produce these electro/mechanical devices with such a precision that they trip at exactly 30 mA within +/- 0.1%. A lower value to be on the safe side, otherwise they would probably have to throw away 25 % of the production, many tripping above 30 mA, gaussian curve etc. Fault currents to earth are cumulative. The old desktop computers with their power supplies produce each a leakage current of 2 to 4 mA. Throw 10 workstations together, a laserprinter and you almost reach the max current of a 30 mA RCD. Sometimes RCDs are too sensitive, already tripping below this nominal trip current. Replace a RCD if trip current is more than 30 mA or lower than 15 mA. Or trips too slow. Question: anything else with a possible leakage current (electric kettle?) connected to the same circuit as the boiler and under protection of the same RCD? Condensation issues somewhere? Divide and rule can help, more RCDs in your installation électrique.
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Post by Polarengineer on Jan 8, 2024 8:11:57 GMT 1
RA has the most likely solution here, but I notice that your instruction manual is for the boiler and not the burner. Probably due to having a choice of fuels. The burner is powered from connectors C2 which is only illustrated by a symbol for the air fan, however, burners are much more complicated and include pumps igniters flame detectors relays and fans (in case of gas firing, a solenoid valve) I suspect the igniter sparking system has some surge protection that may be faulty.. this is pure guesswork from me as I don’ see the manual for the burner.
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JohnnyD
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Mayenne (53) When Covid allows..........Which isn't very often these days........
Posts: 2,014
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Post by JohnnyD on Jan 8, 2024 10:13:37 GMT 1
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Post by Polarengineer on Jan 8, 2024 10:39:00 GMT 1
I would suggest you follow RA’s advice and if that does not help, you may need to have this burner maintained by the supplier. Having looked it over I am at a loss as to what the filter antiparasite is, however, it may just be the problem here. The burner is NOT a diy item. Do not mess with it yourself, I know that I would not touch it myself, the maker has the experience
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Post by robertarthur on Jan 8, 2024 11:54:27 GMT 1
@ JohnnyD, 1/ Kettle + electric towel radiator added: comes at a price: more tiny fault currents to earth. 2/ Divide and rule: please more than one RCD, see diagram in this document.3/ Divide and rule continued: boiler connected as a circuit specialisé, with its own ID or disjoncteur différentiel? Or sharing the same RCD with others, your kettle and electric towel radiator? 4/ Divide and rule part III, the circuits specialisés in France. 5/ Department DIY: the ID as a possible trigger happy suspect. Useful is this tester VT35 from Multimetrix: checking sockets for phase and neutral position and the presence of earthing. Also the possibility to test RCDs with different leakage currents to see if and at what fault current it does its job. Complicating factor in practice: the presence of small leakage currents to earth from other connected equipment adds up. Switch off everything, unplug every appliance. Use a socket close to the consumer box. With this little tester you don't know within how many milliseconds the interrupteur différentiel will react. But then again, this instrument costs less than 30 euros, professional meters start at 500 €. 6/ @ PE, filtre antiparasite, better known as an EMI filter . The usual arrangement of only a handful of passive components, to suppress noise, incoming or outgoing. Also adding to the 'background' noise of cumulative fault currents to earth.
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JohnnyD
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Mayenne (53) When Covid allows..........Which isn't very often these days........
Posts: 2,014
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Post by JohnnyD on Jan 8, 2024 12:39:30 GMT 1
Thank you all for your suggestions, I wouldn’t dream of touching anything in the boiler……not my area at all…
JD
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mysty
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Post by mysty on Jan 10, 2024 10:17:24 GMT 1
Thank you all for your suggestions, I wouldn’t dream of touching anything in the boiler……not my area at all… JD If you do not know what your doing get an expert that's what I do 😃
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Post by robertarthur on Jan 13, 2024 15:05:53 GMT 1
JD, quote from the New York Times: ' failure rates can be high for electric kettles ' They didn't check leakage currents: new and after one year. No insulation resistance testing either. Consumer oriented report, ease of use etc.
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Post by robertarthur on Jan 13, 2024 15:45:44 GMT 1
JD, from a fully authorized source this information about the effects of cumulative leakage currents. A lot of words and expensive measurement equipment to expalin something every electrician, DIY or professional, already has in his or her intellectual baggage.
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JohnnyD
Member
Mayenne (53) When Covid allows..........Which isn't very often these days........
Posts: 2,014
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Post by JohnnyD on Jan 14, 2024 15:54:21 GMT 1
RA I am pretty sure its the boiler now, it hasn't happened since my OP and nothing has changed re appliances etc, it only seems to happen when the boiler has been off for a number of weeks, so i am guessing its condensation or similar somewhere in the boiler which dries out/gets zapped not long after its been turned on, how one finds an issue like that i have no idea.
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Post by hughnique on Jan 15, 2024 13:58:53 GMT 1
I remember doing a rewire on a place here, done the kitchen general purpose socket outlets and all tested ok, few days later after the chippy had finished putting the kitchen in I was back there finishing off, though nice cup of coffee, plugged the kettle in, POP, thought that's knackered and slung it in the bin, then the customer rings me when she puts the microwave in again POP, same socket, took it down, the chippy had taken the sockets off to fit his upstand at the back of the worktop, and had put the cables back wrongly so kettle and micro were trying to work live earth, dustman had been and gone with kettle by then.
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Post by robertarthur on Jan 15, 2024 23:23:42 GMT 1
JohnnyD, if it is a serous condensation problem the RCD should trip immediately after applying power to your installation électrique when returning. We always switch off everything. We returned after two months absence and switching on the separate four électrique immediately tripped the RCD. A treatment of 10 minutes with a hair dryer solved the probleen. Happened only once. Your case is more difficult. Some bollers are phase sensitive, ignition problems, no ignition at all. Perhaps - very remote possibility - inspecting the phase arrangement, and also measuring it, might be something to try. You never know. In one of the wiring diagrams, inside your boiler: N ----> ( 1 ) Pe ----> ( 2 ) L ----> ( 3 ) on the connector block. Another diagram mentioned Phase = L1, Pe in the middle and N = N.
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