exile
Member
Massif Central
Posts: 2,685
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Post by exile on Jan 9, 2024 10:09:29 GMT 1
But there you fall foul of media bias - news and the books. Well we all know about the media, but you cannot make a comment about the books, he was one of the worlds leading air accident investigators, so no fiction. Sorry but you have missed the point. None of it is fiction neither books nor news reports. But the nature of such presentations is that they focus on negative events and never mention the millions of uneventful flights. Planes do fall out of the air. Ships sink. Trains collide and cars run over people. Sh1t does indeed happen. But if you only focus on the negatives you would never leave the house - except of course that statistics show that the most dangerous place to be (according to A&E patient records) is at home.
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Nifty
Member
Posts: 5,015
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Airbus
Jan 9, 2024 10:20:34 GMT 1
Post by Nifty on Jan 9, 2024 10:20:34 GMT 1
The reporting of of uneventful flights is not particularly saleable
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Nifty
Member
Posts: 5,015
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Post by Nifty on Jan 9, 2024 10:32:19 GMT 1
But there you fall foul of media bias - news and the books. Well we all know about the media, but you cannot make a comment about the books, he was one of the worlds leading air accident investigators, so no fiction. Some forget that they choose what they read or what they believe.
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JohnnyD
Member
Mayenne (53) When Covid allows..........Which isn't very often these days........
Posts: 2,014
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Airbus
Jan 9, 2024 10:37:52 GMT 1
Post by JohnnyD on Jan 9, 2024 10:37:52 GMT 1
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Nifty
Member
Posts: 5,015
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Airbus
Jan 9, 2024 10:58:18 GMT 1
Post by Nifty on Jan 9, 2024 10:58:18 GMT 1
‘ For example, bolts that needed additional tightening. These findings will be remedied by our Tech Ops team to safely return the aircraft to service,” United said in a statement.‘
Sound highly technical. I am sure such a procedure demands lots of expensive expertise. Not to mention a long trail of paperwork.
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Post by robertarthur on Jan 9, 2024 13:28:39 GMT 1
Loose bolts on multiple Boeing 737 Max 9 planes. Joining parts together has always been a critical step in manufacturing. Steel strength below specifications? A manufacturing batch with problems? Torque wrenches not calibrated? Even the simple DIY, wheel nuts etc, knows that having a good quality wrench is important. Lack of supervision by Boeing? Cutting corners in the manufacturing process? Let's wait and see what the outcome of the investigations has to say. Not a brilliant start this year.
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Airbus
Jan 9, 2024 14:08:34 GMT 1
Post by spectrum on Jan 9, 2024 14:08:34 GMT 1
Agree most accidents are in the home, thats because most people spent more time there than anywhere else. This incident has a good outcome, as said the books I read about aircraft safety always comes to the same conclusion, that any accident should be learnt from and mechanisms put in place to prevent it happening again, whether its tighting a bolt to the correct torque or the manufactures instructions being complied with, but while ever there is a person involved there is always chance of a slip up, and at twenty thousand feet that is not a good thing, but critically damaged aircraft have been saved by the skills and cooperation of all flight crew, with no lose of life or certainly a reduced amount. Agreed there is no such thing as bad news, when you are selling it, and why let the truth get in the way of a good story.
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Airbus
Jan 9, 2024 16:49:37 GMT 1
Post by iolar on Jan 9, 2024 16:49:37 GMT 1
In the Aveyron we had a close neighbour a straight talking Yorkshire man who was once a chief tiff in the navy, responsible for dealing with any downed Sea King. I asked him what happens if a chopper develops a big problem in the air his reply "it crashes, you die".
In the 70s I nearly got talked into going on a course in NDT (non destructive testing) work in the oil business. An old school friend was a 6-3 man who mainly worked from Norway, he had married a Norwegian girl. Even though he only got paid an extra 30% or so he took contracts offshore. You had to wear a 'survival suit' on any flight over the sea. I remember asking him if he ever had any troublesome flights, he was a bit evasive in reply.
In those days it was 6 weeks on and one week off. He once took me for a drink where I met some of his co-workers. It convinced me that though the money was good I couldn't take working 6 weeks on with them - I have no regrets.
It doesn't take a lifetime to realise just how much life revolves around 'luck'. In the 70s' I became a good friend with a Turkish guy who was around the same age. He was doing a PHD at Sussex Uni. Coming back from a holiday to see his family and friends in Turkey as the plane was heading into Paris he remembered that he had a friend living there he hadn't sen in ages and decided to stop over. The plane took off for it's final destination - London. Soon after takeoff it crashed and all on board died - so it goes.
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Nifty
Member
Posts: 5,015
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Airbus
Jan 9, 2024 21:12:49 GMT 1
Post by Nifty on Jan 9, 2024 21:12:49 GMT 1
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Airbus
Jan 9, 2024 23:16:34 GMT 1
Post by plog on Jan 9, 2024 23:16:34 GMT 1
To address the point posed by OP it's (honestly) way way to early in the game to draw any conclusions about whether the composite fuselage on the A350 performed any better or worse than a metal structure would have done in the same circumstances - but it's fair to say it did what was required so yes, Airbus did a good job. In the context of plastic jets it might being worth be aware that the 787 also uses a tremendous amount of a lot of composite, especially in the fuselage, it isn't something unique to Airbus.
As for the evacuation - there's lot of debate about just how well it was handled - successful yes, but perhaps not the "text book evacuation" the MSM were calling it within hours of the event..there are a few questions doing the rounds about crew procedures, communications and the choice of exits/slides.
We'll have to wait months/a year plus to see the accident report, and as regular readers of reports will know those quite often paint a very different picture to the one painted in the tabloids immediately post the event...
As for Boeing ATM...words almost fail me. I earned a living flying various of their Long Haul types for over a period of three decades and never ever had any complaints about build quality.
The rot appears to have set in once somebody decided shareholder value was king and Boeing moved their HQ away from the Pacific Northwest.
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Post by monsieur3seas on Jan 10, 2024 9:41:54 GMT 1
A work colleague tells of his experience in the USA when his flight was aborted on take off. They had to evacuate the aircraft via the slides. It was a cold winters day and he'd taken his shoes off and left his luggage on board (as your are supposed to). He spent a long time on the runway nearby and his feet got really cold. When he was inside he had great difficulty with ground staff because his passport was in the plane!
Iolar's point about helicopters is interesting. Dick Cheney, former vice president of USA and CEO of Halliburton, always travelled to N Sea facilities by helicopter with another one flying behind in case his went down. The survival suits were to facilitate finding the bodies (allegably)!!!
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Airbus
Jan 10, 2024 9:54:08 GMT 1
Post by cernunnos on Jan 10, 2024 9:54:08 GMT 1
The survival suits were to facilitate finding the bodies (allegably)!!! Yes that is what we always said , 35 years working offshore makes one a little cynical. The helicopter that crashed on the rocks in Norway, killing all on board , was one after the flight I was on .
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Post by plog on Jan 10, 2024 10:09:37 GMT 1
Having worn an immersion suit and as a result having survived a dunking in the North Sea, in winter, at night, due to an accident involving a fixed wing aircraft, I think you're being overly pessimistic re these suits.
The problem with helicopters is they have all sorts of imaginative ways of thrashing themselves to death, but if you did manage to escape one after it had ditched (and many people have done so) I think you'd welcome the protection.
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Airbus
Jan 10, 2024 10:23:19 GMT 1
Post by cernunnos on Jan 10, 2024 10:23:19 GMT 1
Having worn an immersion suit and as a result having survived a dunking in the North Sea, in winter, at night, due to an accident involving a fixed wing aircraft, I think you're being overly pessimistic re these suits. The problem with helicopters is they have all sorts of imaginative ways of thrashing themselves to death, but if you did manage to escape one after it had ditched (and many people have done so) I think you'd welcome the protection. Survival suits were part of my life for 35 years ,so I do have a wee bit of experience with them and have worked with a few that survived helicopter crashes , mostly through luck.
The first offshore survival courses were done in the harbour in Rotterdam, the suits were rejects and all leaked , I know I was there.
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Airbus
Jan 10, 2024 10:37:33 GMT 1
Post by plog on Jan 10, 2024 10:37:33 GMT 1
Oh not denying you don’t know your stuff but I’m a bit wary of people perhaps adopting a fatalistic approach to this sort of topic…in the commercial world you will encounter people who simply don’t bother with listening to the safety brief, looking for their nearest exit etc because “there’s no point bothering with that sort of thing because if we crash we’re screwed anyway”, when we know that’s not true.
“ The first offshore survival courses were done in the harbour in Rotterdam, the suits were rejects and all leaked , I know I was there.”
Oh dear..that’s not great.
FWIW in my accident my colleague’s suit leaked like a sieve but fortunately the rescue helicopter got to him first…I had a slightly longer wait to be hauled out but my suit stayed dry…
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