Aardvark
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Living in soggy 22 and still wondering what's going on.
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Post by Aardvark on Nov 20, 2021 11:07:52 GMT 1
A work in progress. We keep sending letters and we know they are getting through because we get responses referring to them. We will be searching for email addresses to canvas further up the food chain. A long winter ahead with nothing much else to do. You can tell me to mind my own business if you like but I'm happy to help you resolve this as I probably live close to the house. Have you contacted the Mairie at all? Thankyou for the offer. I will consult with the memsahib. She has sent two requests to the maire and they do not want to get involved.
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Aardvark
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Living in soggy 22 and still wondering what's going on.
Posts: 2,172
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Post by Aardvark on Nov 20, 2021 11:21:53 GMT 1
If you do get the tax revoked then another division of the government will send you letters every year asking if the work has been completed or a date of when it will be finished. We had that from Grasse every year even after it finished.. I told the owners to reply and finally they did and the letters stopped and normal service - tax d hab started again. We did get it revoked for one year when there were no toilets installed but as the ones that were installed were in built hanging toilets we were not eligible. Does a 2nd property no matter what the state still have to pay tax d hab? I think so? It was null en voided for principle residences but 2nd I do not know.. Something to look at the law closely before raising a stink and involving other people. It might also depend on region, department.. Why not just destroy it & take it away or bury it and just have the land if you are not going to sell it as is? It will probably happen anyway down the line. This is not a second home. It belongs to her, in her own name. We live in mine, in my name. She wanted to sell it some years ago when it was still in quite a decent state. A quickie valuation at the time was something around €150k. The snag came when it became clear that her three adult stepchildren wanted much more than they were legally entitled to under French inheritance law. Since they are greedy scumbags that were very abusive after the passing of her late husband she was/is unwilling to relenquish a penny of her rightful portion of the proceeds of a sale. To go ahead and put it on the market in the hopes of a Notaire sorting out the inheritance later would have been a road to nowhere. Up front costs like for the Diagnostique, etc. waiting to find a buyer, and then at the last minute the offspring refusing to sign the compromis because they were unwilling to accept the offer. This scenario created the situation we are in. Now it is in such a state that it is unlikely to attract a buyer at any price which is why she offered it to the commune gratis some time ago.
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Aardvark
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Living in soggy 22 and still wondering what's going on.
Posts: 2,172
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Post by Aardvark on Nov 20, 2021 11:23:07 GMT 1
I can only answer how the situation is here. Your house or apartment is empty and empty means empty, no furniture, and you wish for a dispensation of TdH, one would apply to the Mairie for an Attestation de Vacance. There are no requirements for it to be 'uninhabitable'. It can be fully fitted out with a functioning bathroom and kitchen, it just has to be empty of non fixed furniture. If it meets these requirements on the 1st of Jan, then no TdH will be payable later in the year. Just for the record, we have a history of sixteen years applying these rules to our apartments should they be vacant on the 1st Jan with the full co-operation of the Mairie. We will have another go with the Mairie, asking specifically for an Attestation de Vacance and see if that works. Thankyou.
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Aardvark
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Living in soggy 22 and still wondering what's going on.
Posts: 2,172
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Post by Aardvark on Nov 20, 2021 11:24:44 GMT 1
You can tell me to mind my own business if you like but I'm happy to help you resolve this as I probably live close to the house. Have you contacted the Mairie at all? We had better liaise as I don't want to come across you when I am in the garden with my sledgehammer. She has been in contact with them by email. They're just not interested and unhelpful.
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Aardvark
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Living in soggy 22 and still wondering what's going on.
Posts: 2,172
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Post by Aardvark on Nov 20, 2021 11:26:51 GMT 1
Just a thought... In your communications with the powers that be Aardvark, there isn’t any confusion between the French word "habitable" (meaning INhabitable in English), and the French "inhabitable" (meaning UNinhabitable in English)? I don't think there will have been any confusion. She translates her correspondence into French. One of the neighbour's daughter once worked for the Mairie and said the Maire doesn't like the English, so maybe that is part of the problem. I have met "institutional racism" here in the past. Thankfully rare.
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FFS
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As usual, in front of my laptop when I'm here
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Post by FFS on Nov 20, 2021 11:26:56 GMT 1
Mysty might buy it. If your wife is the sole owner, surely the step-children have no say in the sale of the property?
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Aardvark
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Living in soggy 22 and still wondering what's going on.
Posts: 2,172
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Post by Aardvark on Nov 20, 2021 11:34:28 GMT 1
Mysty might buy it. If your wife is the sole owner, surely the step-children have no say in the sale of the property? As I have understood it, the stepchildren, as legal heirs to the late husband's share of the house (one quarter share each of 50%) they would be signatories to the contract of sale. It is then that they will dig their heels in. We took legal advice a long time ago and were told that the only way to get out from under it was to go to court. The expense of taking that route was prohibitive, and would have taken years anyway. The court would take over control and put it to general auction, and the result might not have covered the legal expenses.
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Post by pcpa on Nov 20, 2021 11:46:42 GMT 1
It's not the Maire or Mairie that make the decision on whether taxe d'hab is levied on a property but Les Impots, you should go and explain the situation with them in person, I had to do this over several years, mostly they were unhelpfull but would give me a dégrèvement to get rid of me but I had to go through the same palava each year with another person telling me that their colleague should not have granted me one etc.
Finally I got to see the Chef and she seperated my property into two dwellings classing the main building uninhabitable, I came away from that meeting with a much better understanding of the whole rating system, the valeur locatif, indice de vetustité etc, unlike the underlings she did not feel undermined to impart her knowledge so that I could understand the situation.
A rider to the above statement regarding the Mairie, an attestation from them will usually work wonders with the staff at Les Impôts, my first Maire gave me an attestation de domicile after 3 years showing the date I first occupied the property enabling me to reclaim the TdH that by then I realised I should not have paid.
Une attestation de vacance should do the trick and its worth you giving the Mairie one last try, it will be interesting to see their response to a specific informed request, if they don't play ball then I would visit the Hôtel des Impôts.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2021 12:16:04 GMT 1
As pcpa says, contact the Hotel des impots, every letter OH sent was to one of them not any Mairie and we have not had one refused dispensation yet. Hope you get it sorted.
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Nifty
Member
Posts: 5,016
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Post by Nifty on Nov 20, 2021 12:37:27 GMT 1
Mysty might buy it. If your wife is the sole owner, surely the step-children have no say in the sale of the property? As I have understood it, the stepchildren, as legal heirs to the late husband's share of the house (50%) they would be signatories to the contract of sale. It is then that they will dig their heels in. We took legal advice a long time ago and we told that the only way to get out from under it was to go to court. The expense of taking that route was prohibitive, and would have taken years anyway. The court would take over control and put it to general auction, the result might not have covered the legal expenses. OH and I had an annual interview with our bank recently and this subject came up. Apparently, it is possible to write a legal disclaimer without the necessity of using another agency.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2021 13:00:32 GMT 1
Mysty might buy it. If your wife is the sole owner, surely the step-children have no say in the sale of the property? It's complicated if the children are being difficult. I think it's possible to have a court force them to sign now and accept what they are due by law but that costs money. We bought a hotel for 22000 and just got a maison du maître for 23000. We might sell for 150k but would never pay that much for a propery. 😲
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Post by pcpa on Nov 20, 2021 14:06:55 GMT 1
The property that I am (I hope) purchasing has similar family issues, I take confidence that they gave a procuration to one of the siblings to put it on with the agent, that the diagnostiques have been paid for but I won't be getting too excited until the compromis is signed, the story that is gradually revealing itself re the family members from my talking to people in the commune is not the one being painted by the agent but that's to be expected, the truth if it is so would put most people off.
What is ironic is that the family could have saved €7K immo fees as I had found the abandoned property during my own searches on the ground in the early summer and it was my first port of call on my return to try and trace the owners/heritees, when I got there the Immo sign was hanging on the gate.
Probably just as well as I reckon had I contacted a family member direct it would have never got to a sale, this way the Immo could advise them candidly of their real chances of an actual sale and the realistic price.
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Aardvark
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Living in soggy 22 and still wondering what's going on.
Posts: 2,172
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Post by Aardvark on Nov 20, 2021 16:26:54 GMT 1
It's not the Maire or Mairie that make the decision on whether taxe d'hab is levied on a property but Les Impots, you should go and explain the situation with them in person, I had to do this over several years, mostly they were unhelpfull but would give me a dégrèvement to get rid of me but I had to go through the same palava each year with another person telling me that their colleague should not have granted me one etc. Finally I got to see the Chef and she seperated my property into two dwellings classing the main building uninhabitable, I came away from that meeting with a much better understanding of the whole rating system, the valeur locatif, indice de vetustité etc, unlike the underlings she did not feel undermined to impart her knowledge so that I could understand the situation. A rider to the above statement regarding the Mairie, an attestation from them will usually work wonders with the staff at Les Impôts, my first Maire gave me an attestation de domicile after 3 years showing the date I first occupied the property enabling me to reclaim the TdH that by then I realised I should not have paid. Une attestation de vacance should do the trick and its worth you giving the Mairie one last try, it will be interesting to see their response to a specific informed request, if they don't play ball then I would visit the Hôtel des Impôts. She has had two email contacts with Les Impots so far. Both times querying why she has received a Tax Hab bill for the first time in many years. She included in her response a copy of last year's document from them showing a full degrevement. This has fallen on deaf ears. We feel based on the condition of the house and her total income being below (whatever the figure is) Tax Hab should not be payable. Going to the Tax Office brings two problems. First it works out in excess of €100 for the round trip for fuel and autoroute tolls. Roughly 6 hour drive each way and when we get there neither one of us is any good at French language so going there is an expensive gamble. Letters or emails at least she can do a translation that hopefully makes sense and send copies of any wallpaper they want. Having said that, she has just said maybe we should give it one last shot. Trek down there with some tools and make sure the place is truly fecced, throw any remaining loose items out the windows and then take photos of all the empty rooms, flood damage, loose wiring, etc. Then send the photos to the Mairie asking for the Attestation de Vacance. If we get that then it can be sent to the Tax Office. It's a fair old trip for us in Brittany to the Charente and back in one day non-stop. Both getting too old to enjoy that sort of thing.
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FFS
Member
As usual, in front of my laptop when I'm here
Posts: 2,797
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Post by FFS on Nov 20, 2021 16:29:17 GMT 1
Mysty might buy it. If your wife is the sole owner, surely the step-children have no say in the sale of the property? It's complicated if the children are being difficult. I think it's possible to have a court force them to sign now and accept what they are due by law but that costs money. We bought a hotel for 22000 and just got a maison du maître for 23000. We might sell for 150k but would never pay that much for a propery. 😲 I suggested that you might buy it because Aardvark had said, "Now it is in such a state that it is unlikely to attract a buyer at any price which is why she offered it to the commune gratis some time ago."
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Aardvark
Non-gamer
Living in soggy 22 and still wondering what's going on.
Posts: 2,172
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Post by Aardvark on Nov 20, 2021 16:31:06 GMT 1
Mysty might buy it. If your wife is the sole owner, surely the step-children have no say in the sale of the property? It's complicated if the children are being difficult. I think it's possible to have a court force them to sign now and accept what they are due by law but that costs money. We bought a hotel for 22000 and just got a maison du maître for 23000. We might sell for 150k but would never pay that much for a propery. 😲 There is no way we/she would sell to you guys knowing what we know about the situation. The house, although grand looking with good sized rooms and double glazed windows, etc. it is trouble in the waiting. If it wasn't for the inheritance problem she'd sell it for peanuts, and I do mean peanuts. Hopefully enough to cover the travelling costs to get to a Notaire for the signing.
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