Aardvark
Non-gamer
Living in soggy 22 and still wondering what's going on.
Posts: 2,172
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Post by Aardvark on Sept 3, 2022 10:36:37 GMT 1
From another forum:
"Although pellets are billed as a very environmentally friendly product the same does not seem to be true about their manufacture. Although small domestic machines are available for the DIY market, the process of commercial production requires a number of high power consuming machines. From looking online, it seems that the raw material is green (fresh wet wood) this then passes through at least two shredders and a hammer press to get the woodchips to the correct size, these particles are then sieved before passing through a magnetic shield which protects the machinery from any metal objects.
Next the chips must be dried. Naturally dried hardwood is around 20% moisture after 3 years of seasoning. The chips need to be 4 to 10% maximum, so they are dried in an industrial machine.
Next the dry chips are forced through a press, a bit like a mincing machine which provides the uniform shape, at this point the pellets are very hot and fragile and they require cooling. They pass through yet another machine which achieves this. Once cooled they are screened to remove debris and damaged pellets before typically a conveyor takes them to a weighing and bagging system.
How much energy does this process consume? How can the product be eco? Yes, when burnt the pellet produces less emissions but look at how much damage the manufacturing process does. It is also possible with some machines for manufacturers to add other item into the mix, such as straw or paper."
No need to get in a flap or an argument. Do your own research.
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Post by omegal on Sept 3, 2022 11:45:06 GMT 1
Just a heads up Johnny D, Pellets are in very short supply at the moment and the cost has risen too. Apparently manufacturing is switching from coal to wood pellets and pellet production has not kept pace with pellet burner sales. Hopefully the situation will be resolved over the coming months but at the moment very difficult to get hold of. A friend of a friend ordered a pallet for €600 when last year they paid €300 so some blatant profiteering going on. Most suppliers are expecting more deliveries at the end of Sept. Around March time I think, we bought 72 bags on special offer in Carrefour at around €3,89 per bag, delivered as well. Same bag today is nigh on €8. I think someone is making a very nice profit from this "shortage". We still have around 35 bags left in the garage which gets aired frequently before anyone warns me of the possible dangers. So we wait because if the prices do not shrink, then the very thing it requires, a pellet burner but no one will be even thinking of buying one until they reverse to close on its pre the huge rise in price. So let's be real, the price will drop, or no one buys the pellet burner, self defeating in other words.
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Post by omegal on Sept 3, 2022 11:57:22 GMT 1
This a large pellet making company:
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Post by omegal on Sept 3, 2022 11:58:34 GMT 1
And this is a small pellet company and there are even smaller companies making pellets:
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Post by jackie on Sept 3, 2022 12:07:03 GMT 1
From another forum: "Although pellets are billed as a very environmentally friendly product the same does not seem to be true about their manufacture. Although small domestic machines are available for the DIY market, the process of commercial production requires a number of high power consuming machines. From looking online, it seems that the raw material is green (fresh wet wood) this then passes through at least two shredders and a hammer press to get the woodchips to the correct size, these particles are then sieved before passing through a magnetic shield which protects the machinery from any metal objects.
Next the chips must be dried. Naturally dried hardwood is around 20% moisture after 3 years of seasoning. The chips need to be 4 to 10% maximum, so they are dried in an industrial machine.
Next the dry chips are forced through a press, a bit like a mincing machine which provides the uniform shape, at this point the pellets are very hot and fragile and they require cooling. They pass through yet another machine which achieves this. Once cooled they are screened to remove debris and damaged pellets before typically a conveyor takes them to a weighing and bagging system.
How much energy does this process consume? How can the product be eco? Yes, when burnt the pellet produces less emissions but look at how much damage the manufacturing process does. It is also possible with some machines for manufacturers to add other item into the mix, such as straw or paper."
No need to get in a flap or an argument. Do your own research. I think it’s you who is getting into a flap about the whole thing, don’t understand why as you’re not even considering one so why are you getting so het up? .…🤷♀️ All I’ve done is speak from personal experience and you are accusing us of willy waving. I’ve even now admitted to the current pellet supply probem.
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Post by omegal on Sept 3, 2022 12:13:24 GMT 1
And when you think the massive costs of Nuclear is looking like the main way forward for energy, gas used in many countries comes from far away, warmth costs money. Eco is a word spread wide and watching the smaller companies making pellets, it seems pretty Eco to me but what is Eco? As I said it's a word bandied around and analysed to the nth degree. Is making heat/energy really going to be Eco, or is it a case of being less, or more Eco than something else....
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Aardvark
Non-gamer
Living in soggy 22 and still wondering what's going on.
Posts: 2,172
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Post by Aardvark on Sept 3, 2022 16:50:19 GMT 1
All you devotees of pellet burners have some catching up to do. link
And I'm not getting "het up", just a rebuttal to being told I know nothing about pellet burners because I don't have one myself.
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Post by jackie on Sept 3, 2022 17:39:50 GMT 1
All you devotees of pellet burners have some catching up to do. link
And I'm not getting "het up", just a rebuttal to being told I know nothing about pellet burners because I don't have one myself. The criticism was more to do with you writing off something you have no first hand experience of based on what other people have told you and what’s been said on other forums. Yes, have read that article and it seems that, similar to firewood, its important to carefully source things. Is any form of heating going to be totally environmentally friendly? I’m not a devotee but after having experience of woodburners and pellet stoves I personally much prefer the latter. Hasn’t this debate run it’s course now? I’m not going to change your mind and you’re not going to change mine.
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Post by omegal on Sept 3, 2022 18:20:02 GMT 1
Let's all look round as many sites as we can on the Internet and see who wins on non actual experience but can score most points with the sites they find. I read that piece in the Guardian from start to finish. Seems it is similar problem to the many plants of various statures in the US. I have just found site after site about problem after problem in the US affecting air and breathing and nothing to do with pellet manufacturing. The simple thing I guess is to move pellet plants to remote areas but you would have noticed that only one woman gave her thoughts, none of it proven but that is not to say the pellet factor was not a cause for her Asthma but even she said she could not be sure. There was a fire in a plant and other fires, so maybe the security was not up to scratch? No mention of deaths or how bad etc For anything new, or not so old, there will be fores and against, never been any different has it. There are sites saying it is a good fuel, some not so.....And there you have it. If Nuclear power wasn't so important, it would be banned but of course they have learnt to control the problems but there are still cases like Chernobyl where three Daughters of our friends in Provence had to have operations due to thyroid problem caused by the winds bringing the problem down to Provence and beyond
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JohnnyD
Member
Mayenne (53) When Covid allows..........Which isn't very often these days........
Posts: 2,019
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Post by JohnnyD on Sept 3, 2022 18:38:48 GMT 1
This has turned into quite a ‘heated’ discussion 😳
Maybe I should have just done a poll 🔥
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exile
Member
Massif Central
Posts: 2,693
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Post by exile on Sept 3, 2022 20:23:13 GMT 1
From another forum: "Although pellets are billed as a very environmentally friendly product the same does not seem to be true about their manufacture. Although small domestic machines are available for the DIY market, the process of commercial production requires a number of high power consuming machines. From looking online, it seems that the raw material is green (fresh wet wood) this then passes through at least two shredders and a hammer press to get the woodchips to the correct size, these particles are then sieved before passing through a magnetic shield which protects the machinery from any metal objects.
Next the chips must be dried. Naturally dried hardwood is around 20% moisture after 3 years of seasoning. The chips need to be 4 to 10% maximum, so they are dried in an industrial machine.
Next the dry chips are forced through a press, a bit like a mincing machine which provides the uniform shape, at this point the pellets are very hot and fragile and they require cooling. They pass through yet another machine which achieves this. Once cooled they are screened to remove debris and damaged pellets before typically a conveyor takes them to a weighing and bagging system.
How much energy does this process consume? How can the product be eco? Yes, when burnt the pellet produces less emissions but look at how much damage the manufacturing process does. It is also possible with some machines for manufacturers to add other item into the mix, such as straw or paper."
No need to get in a flap or an argument. Do your own research. It is of course educational to list each and every process necessary to reach an end product. So to be fair let's look at managed woodland * * we could of course look at wild woodland but increasingly this is becoming more and more rare. And before you say but my trees are just there - are they? or did someone actually plant then some generations ago? So for wood from my own land: Clear land - remove scrub and if necessary remove weeds and break up soil. Plant saplings - these may have been natural and are then replanted or they may be cultured in a nursery. Protect saplings from major predators - first line of attack may well be deer and or wild boar. Today this means use of plastic tree guards. Maybe not so good for the environment long term. Time will tell. Apply as necessary fertilisers and weed killers. At 5, 10, 20. 30 years go into your home made forest and thin the unusable trees. Wait at minimum 35-40 years. Cut down trees. Remove and dispose of side shoots. extract with heavy machinery and drag to nearest road. Collect and deliver (HGV) to wood yard for cutting up. Return to step one to start the next generation of wood. The problem with those that use wood burners is that they think wood just grows on trees. It's much more complicated than that. My major concern wit pellets is that the majority (when I last looked) came from Canada - so hrdly local supply.
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Post by glazedallover on Sept 3, 2022 20:25:18 GMT 1
This has turned into quite a ‘heated’ discussion 😳 Maybe I should have just done a poll 🔥 Or you could use all the 'hot air ' created to heat your home....
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Post by cernunnos on Sept 3, 2022 20:35:41 GMT 1
"the problem with those that use wood burners is that they think wood just grows on trees." it does end of problem
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Post by jackie on Sept 3, 2022 20:46:28 GMT 1
From another forum: "Although pellets are billed as a very environmentally friendly product the same does not seem to be true about their manufacture. Although small domestic machines are available for the DIY market, the process of commercial production requires a number of high power consuming machines. From looking online, it seems that the raw material is green (fresh wet wood) this then passes through at least two shredders and a hammer press to get the woodchips to the correct size, these particles are then sieved before passing through a magnetic shield which protects the machinery from any metal objects.
Next the chips must be dried. Naturally dried hardwood is around 20% moisture after 3 years of seasoning. The chips need to be 4 to 10% maximum, so they are dried in an industrial machine.
Next the dry chips are forced through a press, a bit like a mincing machine which provides the uniform shape, at this point the pellets are very hot and fragile and they require cooling. They pass through yet another machine which achieves this. Once cooled they are screened to remove debris and damaged pellets before typically a conveyor takes them to a weighing and bagging system.
How much energy does this process consume? How can the product be eco? Yes, when burnt the pellet produces less emissions but look at how much damage the manufacturing process does. It is also possible with some machines for manufacturers to add other item into the mix, such as straw or paper."
No need to get in a flap or an argument. Do your own research. It is of course educational to list each and every process necessary to reach an end product. So to be fair let's look at managed woodland * * we could of course look at wild woodland but increasingly this is becoming more and more rare. And before you say but my trees are just there - are they? or did someone actually plant then some generations ago? So for wood from my own land: Clear land - remove scrub and if necessary remove weeds and break up soil. Plant saplings - these may have been natural and are then replanted or they may be cultured in a nursery. Protect saplings from major predators - first line of attack may well be deer and or wild boar. Today this means use of plastic tree guards. Maybe not so good for the environment long term. Time will tell. Apply as necessary fertilisers and weed killers. At 5, 10, 20. 30 years go into your home made forest and thin the unusable trees. Wait at minimum 35-40 years. Cut down trees. Remove and dispose of side shoots. extract with heavy machinery and drag to nearest road. Collect and deliver (HGV) to wood yard for cutting up. Return to step one to start the next generation of wood. The problem with those that use wood burners is that they think wood just grows on trees. It's much more complicated than that. My major concern wit pellets is that the majority (when I last looked) came from Canada - so hrdly local supply. The ones we’ve been buying so far have all been manufactured in France. So it has been possible to buy French sourced pellets very easily i.e Flamino which have been sold by SuperU in our area. Don’t know where you have been looking to say that the majority come from Canada. Not the case round here.
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Post by omegal on Sept 3, 2022 21:54:35 GMT 1
Same with us, most popular for us has been Woodstock granules a bois (at least 180+) bought from Leroy Merlin fabricated in France and the 72 we bought from Carrefour were also made in France. In fact in a quick look around for granules a bois I would say all were made here in France
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