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Post by mangetout on Apr 24, 2024 13:55:54 GMT 1
I believe the difference here is that there are several types of ISA. There are cash ISAs and accrue interest. Then there are others (like mine) which are based on my initial capital being invested (by the company that manages my fund) in shares around the world. This type does not pay dividends or interest - just like any shareholding. That's right Veem. Mine were cash ISAs. I presume your tax will eventually be based on your gains when they are eventually 'cashed in'.
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Post by ajm on Apr 24, 2024 14:04:44 GMT 1
I believe the difference here is that there are several types of ISA. There are cash ISAs and accrue interest. Then there are others (like mine) which are based on my initial capital being invested (by the company that manages my fund) in shares around the world. This type does not pay dividends or interest - just like any shareholding. Ours are the same.
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Veem
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Post by Veem on Apr 24, 2024 14:14:50 GMT 1
I believe the difference here is that there are several types of ISA. There are cash ISAs and accrue interest. Then there are others (like mine) which are based on my initial capital being invested (by the company that manages my fund) in shares around the world. This type does not pay dividends or interest - just like any shareholding. That's right Veem. Mine were cash ISAs. I presume your tax will eventually be based on your gains when they are eventually 'cashed in'. That is what I also presume. Though of course, in the UK it would have been tax free.
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Post by taffy on Apr 25, 2024 15:36:00 GMT 1
As far as I am aware, NSI Premium Bonds have not registered to run a lottery in France so any winnings would not come under the French lottery taxation regulations. Unless specifically excluded by treaty, foreign-source income is taxable in France. There is no mention of lotteries in the UK-France Double Taxation Convention www.gov.uk/government/publications/france-tax-treatiesI've now sent a general question to my local tax office on behalf of all those holding Premium Bonds asking for a definitive ruling on how Premium Bond winnings should be declared, etc. I suspect they'll have to go up the chain to get that? All I've given is the NSI Premium Bond brochure www.nsandi.com/files/asset/pdf/premium-bonds-brochure.pdf so they'll have to do all the interpretation themselves (rather than me pointing them in any particular direction).
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Post by taffy on Apr 25, 2024 15:38:28 GMT 1
As far as I am aware, NSI Premium Bonds have not registered to run a lottery in France so any winnings would not come under the French lottery taxation regulations. Unless specifically excluded by treaty, foreign-source income is taxable in France. There is no mention of lotteries in the UK-France Double Taxation Convention www.gov.uk/government/publications/france-tax-treatiesI've now sent a general question to my local tax office on behalf of all those holding Premium Bonds asking for a definitive ruling on how Premium Bond winnings should be declared, etc. I suspect they'll have to go up the chain to get that? All I've given is the NSI Premium Bond brochure www.nsandi.com/files/asset/pdf/premium-bonds-brochure.pdf so they'll have to do all the interpretation themselves (rather than me pointing them in any particular direction).
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Post by taffy on Apr 25, 2024 15:41:02 GMT 1
Sorry for the multiples , got interrupted, shall be back soon!
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Post by lapourtaider on Apr 25, 2024 15:55:54 GMT 1
Sorry for the multiples , got interrupted, shall be back soon! If you wrote the bit that starts "I've now sent....." To avoid what you wrote appearing in the quote, simply press enter after selecting quote and before typing and your words will appear outside the quote. theotherfrenchforum.freeforums.net/thread/3034/top-tip-1-quoting
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Post by ajm on Apr 25, 2024 16:03:06 GMT 1
Premium bonds are not a lottery. With a lottery you lose your stake but you don't lose your money with PB. It's a "lottery" in the sense that you maight not win some months.
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Post by taffy on Apr 25, 2024 17:07:03 GMT 1
I have received a response from the tax office that lottery gains originating in the UK are not declarable - no reference to whether the lottery should be registered in France. I am still of the view that the PSB numbers that go into the prize draw are a lottery; if the purist argument that the stake is returnable so it's not a lottery prevails, I would suggest that the cost of entering the prize draw is the dimunition in the value of the investment due to inflation. £50,000 invested over one year with inflation at 10% is worth only £45,000, therefore the cost of entering the draw is £5,000, QED!
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suein56
Member
Southern Morbihan 56 Brittany
Posts: 7,550
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Post by suein56 on Apr 25, 2024 17:27:36 GMT 1
Just out of interest. "A Premium Bond is a lottery bond issued by the United Kingdom government since 1956. At present it is issued by the government's National Savings and Investments agency. The principle behind Premium Bonds is that rather than the stake being gambled, as in a usual lottery, it is the interest on the bonds that is distributed by a lottery. The bonds are entered in a monthly prize draw and the government promises to buy them back, on request, for their original price."
Interest is paid and is therefore declarable in France.
If you choose not to believe this Taffy then that is up to you.
Where I lived previously in Morbihan I lived next door to a Tax Fraud Inspector .. she put me right on many issues. I prefer to believe her.
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Tax forms
Apr 25, 2024 18:06:49 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by ajm on Apr 25, 2024 18:06:49 GMT 1
I have received a response from the tax office that lottery gains originating in the UK are not declarable - no reference to whether the lottery should be registered in France. I am still of the view that the PSB numbers that go into the prize draw are a lottery; if the purist argument that the stake is returnable so it's not a lottery prevails, I would suggest that the cost of entering the prize draw is the dimunition in the value of the investment due to inflation. £50,000 invested over one year with inflation at 10% is worth only £45,000, therefore the cost of entering the draw is £5,000, QED! Taffy, using your suggestion about diminution of an investment, then if I have £50,000 in an income bond that pays a monthly amount then that figure should be used to off set the reduction in value of the investment and therefore not be taxable Unfortunately that income is taxable.
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Post by tim17 on Apr 25, 2024 18:15:51 GMT 1
Good luck using that as an argument with the Impots.
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Post by elsie on Apr 25, 2024 18:30:08 GMT 1
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Post by mangetout on Apr 25, 2024 18:53:45 GMT 1
I never cease to be amazed at what expats believe regarding french tax and law. I went out with a group today, and this is what I heard:
1. I don't declare my State Pension in France because (a) it's taxed in the UK, or (b) it's a government pension so not taxable in France or (c) it's not paid into my French bank account so it doesn't count.
2. My bank accounts are nothing to do with France.
3. My rental income from British property is paid to my daughter/sister accounts so they can't trace it.
4. I'm 75, have lived here for 20 years and have just renewed my British driving license using a UK address.
5. Lived here for 25 years, never done a tax return until this year to prepare for the sale of my house to my daughter to avoid tax.
And on it goes.
Anyone else know of such people?
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Nifty
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Post by Nifty on Apr 25, 2024 20:02:00 GMT 1
Possibly, but, they don’t boast about it.
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