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Post by woolybanana on Dec 15, 2022 11:14:06 GMT 1
If they were renationalised there would have to be a no-strike deal and a complete modernisation of work practices. Fat chance!
Nationalisation is really only a way to get the public to foot the bill for massive losses and inefficiencies. Next, the rail staff would want to work from home!
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Post by tim17 on Dec 15, 2022 11:47:00 GMT 1
The government will have to refund shareholders somehow which obviously comes at a huge cost. A compensation very limited .With a proviso that the said companies are never returned to the private secter under any circumstances. Where businesses are re-nationalised governments are bound by international law to offer fair market value compensation to investors so I'm not sure how this can be avoided.
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Post by woolybanana on Dec 15, 2022 12:30:09 GMT 1
Nationalisation is nineteenth century, Marxist nonsense, usually unsuccessful, never improves things, always ver expensive. Look at the NHS! Or French railways.
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Aardvark
Non-gamer
Living in soggy 22 and still wondering what's going on.
Posts: 2,172
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Post by Aardvark on Dec 15, 2022 12:54:24 GMT 1
I am wondering what the actual purpose and justification for having a government would be once they have shifted every service to the private sector.
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exile
Member
Massif Central
Posts: 2,683
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Post by exile on Dec 15, 2022 13:21:33 GMT 1
A compensation very limited .With a proviso that the said companies are never returned to the private secter under any circumstances. Where businesses are re-nationalised governments are bound by international law to offer fair market value compensation to investors so I'm not sure how this can be avoided. As already said Tim; these are franchises. When the franchise runs out, it may be renewed - or not. No compensation required. There may be charges associated with taking over the rolling stock but these days they are largely leased from a few leasing companies or from the manufacturer. Since Covid lockdowns, the franchises have been converted to concessions which by my reading makes it even easier to terminate the agreements without compensation.
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Post by tim17 on Dec 15, 2022 13:24:54 GMT 1
The problem is a lot of the franchises have years to run some beyond 2030 so it would take the best part of a decade to fully nationalise the rail industry if you went down that route.
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Post by omegal on Dec 15, 2022 13:54:55 GMT 1
Nationalisation is nineteenth century, Marxist nonsense, usually unsuccessful, never improves things, always ver expensive. Look at the NHS! Or French railways. Selling off your utilities is the most sickening, look at our electricity, gas, water, waste companies most are foreign owned, you think that is 21st century? It is the worst thing that any country can do. As for the railways, not too long ago I had reason to go to Stratford upon Avon from Ashford Middx. I took three trains, maybe four and it was like going back fifty years. I had originally traveled back using the TGV from Angouleme, then Eurostar from Lille in to London, goodness me the difference in rail travel was startling. So yes French railways (SNCF) are state owned and it costs money, public money BUT it works and it works very well as far as customers are concerned. We enjoy rail travel in France, certainly never enjoyed it in the UK where I am told money is not put in properly by the privately owned companies. Huge difference, France puts money in to new systems and makes it work, yes it costs but anything that works well costs money! !
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JohnnyD
Member
Mayenne (53) When Covid allows..........Which isn't very often these days........
Posts: 2,003
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Post by JohnnyD on Dec 15, 2022 14:37:13 GMT 1
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2022 14:57:40 GMT 1
Strikes have had no effect on any of my family. However, fingers crossed for none of us to get ill!
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Post by jackie on Dec 15, 2022 16:34:18 GMT 1
Nationalisation is nineteenth century, Marxist nonsense, usually unsuccessful, never improves things, always ver expensive. Look at the NHS! Or French railways. French railways? You having a larf? Much better service and cheaper fares than UK. Go do your homework…..
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Post by woolybanana on Dec 15, 2022 18:23:31 GMT 1
Ah, dear jackie, always sniping from beneath the wainscot as and equally ignorant, so sad. SNCF has a debt of about 35 billion and just so you can count it that’s €35000000000 which the French taxpayer has had to assume.Taxpayer, that’s me and perhaps you. Plus a vast reseau it can only run if it is bribed to do so by the regions. And of course it does, but with very very few trains and a ton of cancellations. Just try getting a train from Lille into the countryside. Plus it has left a vast sum for the overstaffed pensions for the kids to pay forever… plus the early retirement burden…. for the kids to pay forever. We wont speak about freight services.
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Post by jackie on Dec 15, 2022 18:46:46 GMT 1
I was replying to your comment (based on experience) about service and being expensive not about the inner machinations of SNCF which you’ve just brought up. I bow to to your superior intellect. 😆 Have a nice evening 🙂
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exile
Member
Massif Central
Posts: 2,683
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Post by exile on Dec 15, 2022 18:47:30 GMT 1
The problem is a lot of the franchises have years to run some beyond 2030 so it would take the best part of a decade to fully nationalise the rail industry if you went down that route. As per my previous post, the franchises have been suspended and replaced as concessions. This means the government provides subsidies because of the fall in traffic during and post covid lock downs. The easy answer is to reinstate the franchises, stop the subsidies and watch the companies queueing to hand back the franchise because they cannot make money at current traffic levels.
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Post by ForumUser2 on Dec 15, 2022 18:58:19 GMT 1
Ah, dear jackie, always sniping from beneath the wainscot as and equally ignorant, so sad. SNCF has a debt of about 35 trillion... Thank you for your pompous mansplaining and unnecessary sniping. Just a shame that the figure you quote is actually 35 billion. It's really hard, even for a pompous oaf, to be that far wrong but somehow you managed it. You'd really have lost credibility there except that you had none to begin with.
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Post by norfolk on Dec 15, 2022 18:59:41 GMT 1
Ah, dear jackie, always sniping from beneath the wainscot as and equally ignorant, so sad. SNCF has a debt of about 35 trillion and just so you can count it that’s €35000000000 which the French taxpayer has had to assume.Taxpayer, that’s me and perhaps you. Plus a vast reseau it can only run if it is bribed to do so by the regions. And of course it does, but with very very few trains and a ton of cancellations. Just try getting a train from Lille into the countryside. Plus it has left a vast sum for the overstaffed pensions for the kids to pay forever… plus the early retirement burden…. for the kids to pay forever. We wont speak about freight services. 35 billion or thereabouts maybe ?
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